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  1. #106
    Astonishing Member Cody's Avatar
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    May 2014


    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    So, let's get this straight:

    1. Rumbles Rule numero uno: We go by high end feats consistent with presentation. That last part is important. MCU Cap has ALWAYS been portrayed as explicitly superhuman. And his feats ALWAYS back that up. Ollie has always been portrayed as a very well trained, massively skilled, extremely tough regular guy. And his feats ALMOST always follow that. He's got a couple of outliers, but that's his general level. He CONSISTENTLY feels hits he takes from explicitly non-superhuman foes. Cap... doesn't. In fact, Cap almost never even takes a hit from non-superhuman foes. He just chews them up and spits them out. But when he does, he literally ignores them.
    Cap has never ignored a hit from a normal person. Even Bucky was having trouble with Black Widow so I am unsure what your argument even is.

    2. You don't get to extrapolate things like "Ollie is more skilled because he's knocked out a room of mooks and he's not on ultra roids so he must be more skilled than Cap." We get to go by what we see on screen. And on-screen, Cap is every bit as skilled as Ollie. Significantly moreso, really, but some of that comes from VASTLY superior choreography. Just watch the highway fight scene from Winter Soldier: Ollie never remotely shows anything on that level. Just not even close. Hell, any of the fight scenes from Winter Soldier.
    You're comparing choreography to feats. Oliver has defeated highly skilled, trained, and experienced fighters who have been around for centuries(Dahrk, and Ras). The highway fight scene again depends a lot on Caps abilities as a super soldier. Do you really think he could accomplish the same without the super soldier serum? Or do you honestly believe that, if Oliver was given the serum; Cap would still give him a good fight despite having none of Olivers training, experience, or a history of clearing mooks without it?

    3. You are ignoring explicit points.
    Such as? You've ignored a lot of mine so I'd like to know how I've ignored yours.

    So, here's another, wrapped in a question with multiple parts: what happens to Ollie if he takes a two handed blast from Ultron in the chest and gets blown into a car at a relative velocity of perhaps 200kmh - car 100kmh in one direction, Ollie at 100kmh in the other?
    Based on consistent feats that I keep mentioning? He is hurt, but he gets up.

    What happens to Ollie if he gets launched through a second floor window so hard by a bomb that he hits a car so hard that his body totals it?
    I don't recall him ever totalling a car, so I'd like a video for that plz.

    Are you saying that he walks those off? Despite literally nothing in his presentation showing same? Because Cap just gets up from stuff like that. Repeatedly. These aren't rhetorical questions.
    So has Oliver; repeatedly. These aren't things that happen in one season. Heck, other than the Diaz fight there is nothing to really contradict it. It is a consistent showing from season 1, 2, 3, and on wards. I don't understand how these can't be consistent when it happens so often?

    4. You have to stop using "blitz from Barry" like it's a thing. Barry is the PISsiest character on TV, and he was definitely holding back MASSIVELY in that scene, to not hurt his sorta-friend/sorta-mentor.
    As noted; he was bloodlusted, and he wasn't very strong or fast at that point. We all made fun over the fact that he hit like wuss back then. I use it, because it actually holds up with Olivers previous feats of taking hits from guys stronger than Captain America. All of which were out to kill him.

    5. Another question you won't and can't answer: what happens to Ollie in the elevator scene in Winter Soldier? Are you honestly trying to say that he lives through that? Cap gets tagged like six or seven times by those SHIELD/STRIKE stun stick things and does all of grimace while annihilating a dozen guys.
    Oliver wouldn't even be tagged anywhere near as often due to both his slightly superior speed and greater skill. He has fought outnumbered, and in close quarters before and won without anyone even touching him. At most I can see him being tagged once.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhyvurg View Post
    As far as falls are concerned, Cap fell a considerable distance in Winter Soldier, at least a dozen stories, and though he did land on the shield that's not going to help his legs, which hit the ground at full speed and didn't break. Ollie was laid up for days after his fall, Cap was up and sprinting in seconds.
    Oliver was walking around shortly after being taken to Kasumi, and his legs didn't break either, just his upper body(if they even broke, considering how long it took for him to heal).
    Last edited by Guy1; 06-16-2018 at 09:22 PM. Reason: Post Edited.
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  2. #107
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Apr 2014


    I think we should take a few steps back here.
    Thread closed until further notice.
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  3. #108
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Apr 2014


    Alright, I'm going to take a shot and re-open the thread. Lets get along everybody!
    Guy And Chou's RPG Site
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