Return of Wolverine by Soule and McNiven

[PlotDevice]

I am biased. The main thing I liked about Rucka was having Wolverine lose to Sabretooth like he's supposed to.

Except you are clearly biased so your basis for approving of Rucka's writing over a single issue is kind of pointless. Sabretooth is not supposed to beat Wolverine. Wolverine has won about 80% of their fights through a plethora of different writers. The whole idea of Sabretooth beating up Logan all the time is outdated and leaves out some obvious factors. This whole idea revolves around the yearly "Birthday Surprise". The fact is Sabretooth didn't DEFEAT Logan every year, he attacked him. As we have seen on several occasions these annual visits entailed quite a bit of sneak attacks and unfair circumstances in Creed's favor. More than likely these usually involved Creed sneaking up on an unaware Logan, viciously attacking him, and then fleeing. When they fight straight up, man to man, the outcome is not nearly as much in Creed's favor. Creed is faster and stronger than Logan. Logan is the better fighter, has higher damage output, and for much of their history was more durable. Logan is also holding himself back in may cases. They should be about even IMO.

I would have thought you hated Rucka for the fact that the Native absolutely decimated Creed in 3 moves twice in that story.

I also disliked Rucka's inability to cope with adamantium in a story, considering Logan pops his claws straight through the top of Creed's skull.

And am I really the only person happy to see Wolverine back in his old costume?

But it's not the old blue and yellow costume. It's not even the old version of that costume from Astonishing X-Men as it has the extended cowl ears and boot tops. I do like the old-style boots though.

By the way it's funny in the announcement they're not calling him James Howlett, or James "Logan" Howlett as they usually do but Logan Howlett.

Hate it. The name is Logan. Squirrel Girl and others calling him "James" is ridiculous. I have been going by Chuck for over a century and everyone called me Chuck to my face and in my thoughts I called myself Chuck. I find out my birth name was Doug. I'm not telling my friends of the last 25 years to call me Doug. I'm still just Chuck thank you. Marvel needs to knock this off. People that dont read comics still know him as Logan. No one knows or wants to know who James Howlett is. The only time we should see that name is on the back of a Wolverine trading card under Birth Name. For the record I'm of the opinion that all of Wolverine:Origins and Origin/Origin 2 should be let go.

[TheCape]

By the way it's funny in the announcement they're not calling him James Howlett, or James "Logan" Howlett as they usually do but Logan Howlett.

Influence by the movie, maybe?

Still is better than heard a bunch of close friends calling him "James" for some reason. Dude has been Logan for most of his life, even in Origins it was clear that he preffered that name anyway.

[jyamen]

https://www.cbr.com/return-of-wolverine-new-powers/

[LeonardEugenius]

You might as well ask for the sky to be green, if this is what you're actually hoping.

You're right. The sky would be green before Marvel ever reeled it in with Wolverine

[jyamen]

and its not even April

[Silver Fang]

Influence by the movie, maybe?

Still is better than heard a bunch of close friends calling him "James" for some reason. Dude has been Logan for most of his life, even in Origins it was clear that he preffered that name anyway.

I never knew what the deal was with his names. lol If I have to tag something, I never know whether to be Logan Howett, James Logan, James Howett, or what the heck.

Except you are clearly biased so your basis for approving of Rucka's writing over a single issue is kind of pointless. Sabretooth is not supposed to beat Wolverine. Wolverine has won about 80% of their fights through a plethora of different writers. The whole idea of Sabretooth beating up Logan all the time is outdated and leaves out some obvious factors. This whole idea revolves around the yearly "Birthday Surprise". The fact is Sabretooth didn't DEFEAT Logan every year, he attacked him. As we have seen on several occasions these annual visits entailed quite a bit of sneak attacks and unfair circumstances in Creed's favor. More than likely these usually involved Creed sneaking up on an unaware Logan, viciously attacking him, and then fleeing. When they fight straight up, man to man, the outcome is not nearly as much in Creed's favor. Creed is faster and stronger than Logan. Logan is the better fighter, has higher damage output, and for much of their history was more durable. Logan is also holding himself back in may cases. They should be about even IMO.

I would have thought you hated Rucka for the fact that the Native absolutely decimated Creed in 3 moves twice in that story.

Can be argued Wolverine only wins due to being Marvel's Mary Sue character. Claremont is Sabretooth's creator, and stated him as the better fighter of the 2, whom Logan never defeated in a straight up fight. Sabretooth was Logan's boogyman, whom Logan had to lose his humanity to defeat at one point. And Sabretooth came after Logan every year on his birthday. Logan had a year in advance to plan for Creed, and was still losing fights & women those days. And Creed even stated to see their fights as playing. So you can say he's not going 100% either.

It's no secret Sabretooth has been dumbed down and jobbed out over the last 15 or so years of Marvel. He loses fights he shouldn't be losing, and that's all he's about is getting beaten up. Meanwhile, Logan wins fights he shouldn't be winning.

Logan even stated Creed usually hands him his ass in fights. But we don't get to see that due to the era of "good guys always have to win." So the Wolverine(s) get to have more on-panel wins. And Sabretooth , like Juggernaut, has been demoted to a Villain of the Week character.

The Native had an element of surprise by playing possum, or attacking Creed when he wasn't paying attention to her. During their man to woman fight in the end, he made short work of her, and left her remains for Logan to find.

[BishopsJuice91]

I know they could’ve thought of something better than hot claws. I would’ve preferred a set of foot claws like X-23 over this...

[WeaponX]

I know they could’ve thought of something better than hot claws. I would’ve preferred a set of foot claws like X-23 over this...

Dear god no.

And Marvel should try something novel like working hard on a good story to make his return special not some new power gimmick that’s soon to appear as weird footnote everyone tries to forget.

[TheCape]

I never knew what the deal was with his names. lol If I have to tag something, I never know whether to be Logan Howett, James Logan, James Howett, or what the heck.



Can be argued Wolverine only wins due to being Marvel's Mary Sue character. Claremont is Sabretooth's creator, and stated him as the better fighter of the 2, whom Logan never defeated in a straight up fight. Sabretooth was Logan's boogyman, whom Logan had to lose his humanity to defeat at one point. And Sabretooth came after Logan every year on his birthday. Logan had a year in advance to plan for Creed, and was still losing fights & women those days. And Creed even stated to see their fights as playing. So you can say he's not going 100% either.

It's no secret Sabretooth has been dumbed down and jobbed out over the last 15 or so years of Marvel. He loses fights he shouldn't be losing, and that's all he's about is getting beaten up. Meanwhile, Logan wins fights he shouldn't be winning.

Logan even stated Creed usually hands him his ass in fights. But we don't get to see that due to the era of "good guys always have to win." So the Wolverine(s) get to have more on-panel wins. And Sabretooth , like Juggernaut, has been demoted to a Villain of the Week character.

The Native had an element of surprise by playing possum, or attacking Creed when he wasn't paying attention to her. During their man to woman fight in the end, he made short work of her, and left her remains for Logan to find.

Eh Logan prowess in fight is among the most incosistent in the whole Marvel Universe, sometimes is up there with Cap America or BP, other times he is a berserker idiot that doesn't know what dodge means, so there has been jobbing to boths at some extent, i think that some writters just dislike Creed or ignore stablish canon for the sake of the plot.

[Silver Fang]

Eh Logan prowess in fight is among the most incosistent in the whole Marvel Universe, sometimes is up there with Cap America or BP, other times he is a berserker idiot that doesn't know what dodge means, so there has been jobbing to boths at some extent, i think that some writters just dislike Creed or ignore stablish canon for the sake of the plot.

Goes for a few characters these days. Where everything just depends on what writer they get signed to. But some characters have longer stints of being mishandled more often. Mystique, Gambut, Storm, and Sabretooth stand out as characters that are mockeries of what they used to be.

Hell, Sabretooth wasn't supposed to be a villain. But once Claremont left, some stuff got axed. Including Creed being redeemable, and eventually joining the X-Men. But when he did enter complete villain territory, he used to be cunning, effective, and seen as dangerous.

But some writers missed the memo, and write Creed like some dumb inexperienced brute, which contradicts him surviving for over 100 years. If he was as stupid as some writers portray him, he'd have been dead before he was 30. lol

Like what Greg Pak has been guilty of in Weapon X. The Creed in this vol is a mockery to the Creed in Tierri's Weapon X. They're not the same character. Tierri's Creed was intelligent, an expert hacker, planner, and cunning manipulator. Pak's Creed can't hunt or use a keyboard. Of everyone on the team, Sabretooth has been the most useless & ineffective. Now, chapter 18 seems like he's doing damage control. But we'll see if that lasts.

[TheCape]

Goes for a few characters these days. Where everything just depends on what writer they get signed to. But some characters have longer stints of being mishandled more often. Mystique, Gambut, Storm, and Sabretooth stand out as characters that are mockeries of what they used to be.

Hell, Sabretooth wasn't supposed to be a villain. But once Claremont left, some stuff got axed. Including Creed being redeemable, and eventually joining the X-Men. But when he did enter complete villain territory, he used to be cunning, effective, and seen as dangerous.

But some writers missed the memo, and write Creed like some dumb inexperienced brute, which contradicts him surviving for over 100 years. If he was as stupid as some writers portray him, he'd have been dead before he was 30. lol

Like what Greg Pak has been guilty of in Weapon X. The Creed in this vol is a mocker to the Creed in Tierri's Weapon X. They're not the same character. Tierri's Creed was intelligent, and expert hacker, planner, and cunning manipulator. Pak's Creed can't hunt or use a keyboard. Of everyone on the team, Sabretooth has been the most useless & ineffective. Now, chapter 18 seems like he's doing damage control. But we'll see if that lasts.

My guest is that most writter either dislike/don't care for Creed, didn't bother to investigate more about the characthers or just wanted a new direction and charactherization/continuity be dammed, every Marvel characther in modern age has suffer this to an extent, Creed is probably one of the worst offenses.

[Centrions]

"His claws can get really hot sometimes"

Ok, why and how. Did his mutation just look at the foreign metal in his body and just went " Hey Logan here have a new superpower!"

Also the metal he has on his claws is the strongest metal known (Not counting Cap's Shield which is also partially made of the stuff). And is capable of cutting through pretty much everything anyways.


I mean ok. I'm excited for Soule and Mcniven but I do think some of that previous stuff seems silly and unnecessary

[TheCape]

"His claws can get really hot sometimes"

Ok, why and how. Did his mutation just look at the foreign metal in his body and just went " Hey Logan here have a new superpower!"

Also the metal he has on his claws is the strongest metal known (Not counting Cap's Shield which is also partially made of the stuff). And is capable of cutting through pretty much everything anyways.


I mean ok. I'm excited for Soule and Mcniven but I do think some of that previous stuff seems silly and unnecessary

That pesky adamantium, always changing the rules everytime that it suits it, damn him i say .

But to be serious, Soule already confirmed that is not a new power.

[PlotDevice]

Can be argued Wolverine only wins due to being Marvel's Mary Sue character.

I don't think you know what a Mary Sue is.

Claremont is Sabretooth's creator, and stated him as the better fighter of the 2, whom Logan never defeated in a straight up fight. Sabretooth was Logan's boogyman.

Unfortunately you are arguing about a character that Claremont conceptulized as opposed to the character that is actually in the books. Claremont also wanted Sabretooth to be Wolverine's father, which is not true. Claremont also wanted Wolverine to get the adamantium because his healing factor didn't work on broken bones, which it certainly does.

Sabretooth as he was created jobbed to Iron Fist and Luke Cage. Then he ripped his own face off losing to Spider-Man. Wolverine stalemated the Hulk in his first appearance. Hmmmmm...

As to the first couple of fights they actually had under Claremont:

Uncanny 212 - Wolverine collapses a tunnel on Creed, rescuing the Morlock Creed held hostage.
Uncanny 213 - Wolverine and Creed have an awesome, brutal fight, which is pretty even until Creed runs away.
Uncanny 222 - Scrambler steals Wolverine's powers, Creed attacks him, Wolverine ONE SHOTS HIM and tosses him away like garbage.

According to you that really should have been 3 effortless wins for Creed, but it wasn't. The simple fact is as it stands Logan beat Creed in their 1st fight in Origin 2. Wolverine beat Creed when neither had adamantium in Wolverine # 90. Wolverine beat Creed when Creed had the adamantium and he didn't in Wolverine # 145. Wolverine beat Creed in Back in Japan and X-Force when they both had the metal. Wolverine beat AOA (Hero)Creed when he had Wild Child's help. Wolverine has even beat Creed in 1 Month to Live when he didn't have a healing factor AND he beat him without using his claws. The reality of the situation is Logan has won the majority of the time. You can complain about how it should have or could have been, but that is neither here nor there.

It's no secret Sabretooth has been dumbed down and jobbed out over the last 15 or so years of Marvel. He loses fights he shouldn't be losing, and that's all he's about is getting beaten up.

Yes he has. I wont dispute that. Sabretooth has been treated poorly...BUT...that's kind of in line with a lot of stuff that's happened to Wolverine in the same time period. He's been beat up by a lot of people that have no business surviving 5 seconds in his company. How did Daredevil not get killed in Enemy of the State? How has Captain America ever survived a fight with Wolverine? How do all these really huge guys land a hit on him before he turns their head into a canoe with his vastly superior speed and reflexes? Wolverine's popular, and and can survive anything his opponents usually can't and thus used as a stepping stone to boost others. Sabretooth via his status as Wolverine's flip-side, gets abused the same way.

I will say that it is kind of insulting that X-23 for some BS reason (looking at you SJW Marvel) seems to have a far easier time against Creed than Logan does. Honestly with his strength level and her lack of an adamantium skeleton she should not be able to stand against him. One good swipe and shes gone. Yes she heals, but no indestructible base to heal from is problematic.

Logan even stated Creed usually hands him his ass in fights. But we don't get to see that due to the era of "good guys always have to win."

When did he say this? You also have to remember that a lot of EARLY Logan/Creed stuff is due to MEMORY IMPLANTS. Originally their first fight (Wolverine # 10) involved Silver fox being killed. DID NOT HAPPEN. Wolverine not having claws. HE HAD THEM. Soooo... you can't really use that fight either. According to Kieron Gillen and Jeph Loeb Logan won their 1st fight and also won their second fight in Japan when he cut off Creed's arm and Romulus had to step in. I dont like retcons either, but it is what it is.

The Native had an element of surprise by playing possum, or attacking Creed when he wasn't paying attention to her.

Aaaaaaah no. In their 1st fight In issue 13 Creed stood there and watched her kill 2 members of his crew. One of them even calls out to him, with the Native's back turned to Creed. He meets her attack with a growl and a swipe. He was prepared.

I know they could’ve thought of something better than hot claws. I would’ve preferred a set of foot claws like X-23 over this...

Meh... I would like to see extra elbow claws (like Guyver) or knee claws housed in upper or lower legs. Or his claws could go through the fist or back to the elbow.

[Centrions]

Actually now that I think about it. Has any of the current Hunt for Wolverine stuff explained why none of the current X-Men telepaths can't just ping Wolverine on Cerebro (Psylocke, O5 Jean, Rachel, or if they're nice enough Emma)?