Red Hood & The Outlaws #23 Preview/Eventual Discussion

[Aioros22]

I think we can safely say Sheila has no place in this continuity and Catherine is officially his brith mother.

Also, after rereading, I actually like the art much more and I think it fit the tone perfectly.

They`ve been taking Sheila`s importance and character away slowly since the 2011 reboot. That`s pretty much the one thing I dislike about the mythos of the character but it`s been a thing since the animated UTRH wholy skipped it to just a Jason and Joker situation.

The real reason I dislike it is because despite Loedbell writting it well (issue 9) it steals away the strongest reason for Jason to go to Middle East and to his demise being heroic despite whatever issues he dealing with. In contrast, it`s now mostly Jason trying to stop the Joker from dealing with nuclear weapons in a case with Batman or Jason having a fallout with Batman and going after the Joker to prove himself like in The Last Crusade (this one with the in-story assertion that Jason was supposed to take over Bruce in the near future, however).

I think him trying to stop the Joker out of an arms deal because he made the cal is still fine, they`ve just been sketchy with the details.

[Aioros22]

As for this, yeah looks like Artemis will have some explaining to do for Jason.

[Zaresh]

Just passing by to say: holy crap, that was so intense! I usually don't cry easily with fiction, and it did make me cry a little. Christ, so good!

I'll read your posts later and discuss, but for now, I'll go have a meal or something, and let it rest a bit.

[Aahz]

They`ve been taking Sheila`s importance and character away slowly since the 2011 reboot.

Shiela was erased by the reboot, in the new 52 Catherine was the one he wanted to rescue from the Joker.

[Aioros22]

Shiela was erased by the reboot, in the new 52 Catherine was the one he wanted to rescue from the Joker.

Weird, I recall Catherine supposely dying of overdose in Gotham. There`s the zero issue with Joker narrating the origin which implies being behind her death but that`s the Joker.

Good excuse as anything to go back and re-read the former volume in one sitting.

[Rise]

Sheila has been erased since the reboot, but I do think she is such a missed opportunity.

Anyway, there's some great analysis from this reviewer about the issue which I personally think it worth reading.

[The Dying Detective]

Honestly i don't see the Penguin dying at all. How is Jason going to resolve the upcoming brawl with Batman if he does?

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

They`ve been taking Sheila`s importance and character away slowly since the 2011 reboot. That`s pretty much the one thing I dislike about the mythos of the character but it`s been a thing since the animated UTRH wholy skipped it to just a Jason and Joker situation.

The real reason I dislike it is because despite Loedbell writting it well (issue 9) it steals away the strongest reason for Jason to go to Middle East and to his demise being heroic despite whatever issues he dealing with. In contrast, it`s now mostly Jason trying to stop the Joker from dealing with nuclear weapons in a case with Batman or Jason having a fallout with Batman and going after the Joker to prove himself like in The Last Crusade (this one with the in-story assertion that Jason was supposed to take over Bruce in the near future, however).

I think him trying to stop the Joker out of an arms deal because he made the cal is still fine, they`ve just been sketchy with the details.

DOTF is mostly retconned now as well so your argument is moot now.

This issue was fantastic and a marked improvement over the past few issues, story was focused and properly build towards a satisfying cliffhanger. However my favorite part is how well Lobdell managed to humanize Willis and turning him from a sleazy good for nothing into a fully realized character that only tried to do the best for his family with what he was dealt by life.

[Aioros22]

I don`t have an argument, I`m pointing out that Jason`s death still happened in the Middle East but the details as to why he was there have been kept sketchy, whereas Catherine`s demisehas always been linked to Gotham due to overdose. I understand that Sheila has been retconned out and while I see it as missed opportunity I enjoy the world building Loedbell has been doing in the book and in the character`s overall mythos.

[Aioros22]

Great review there Rise, the lettering examples are spot on in conveying emotion across time.

[G-Potion]

Just rip my heart out already Lobdell and co.

[G-Potion]

Weird, I recall Catherine supposely dying of overdose in Gotham. There`s the zero issue with Joker narrating the origin which implies being behind her death but that`s the Joker.

Good excuse as anything to go back and re-read the former volume in one sitting.

I would much prefer Sheila as his mom. But I also remember somewhere in N52 Jason found out that Catherine was in fact still alive and went to the Middle East to reunite with her. All part of Joker's plan.

[G-Potion]

Willis's jacket looks like Jason's.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

I would much prefer Sheila as his mom.

Why you prefer Sheila?

She wasn't a great character in execution or concept and is only a contrived reason to move Jason away from Bruce in time to get murdered. Katherine at least has been integrated organically into Jason's story making more believable his reasons to go looking for her.

[okiedokiewo]

Honestly i don't see the Penguin dying at all. How is Jason going to resolve the upcoming brawl with Batman if he does?

Well, yeah, plus it's the Penguin.