Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 34
  1. #16
    Spectacular Member Hopeful Hero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    128

    Default

    Well..damn. Where's the bravo applause gif when you need it?

    That's an impressive insight you got on Clark there. Now if only more of that could be applied to the comics.
    "So as I pray, Unlimited Pak Works!"

  2. #17
    A Gentle Woman Mia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    The Corner Office
    Posts
    1,358

    Default

    Not a Soupie fan. But I my favourite interpretations of Superman is in the MOS film and the Justice League cartoons. In that he's a good, kind decent man, who believes in protecting others. But he is far from some goody-two shoes 'Pollyanna' type of pie in the sky dreamer about the way the world works. He does what is right because it's the way he was brought up...to be the bigger person. To be less than that (ie. venal and toxic) would make him feel soiled and dirty. It's not the man he wants to be.
    • “The moment will arrive when you are comfortable with who you are, & when you don’t feel the need to apologize for anything or to deny anything. To be comfortable in your own skin is the beginning of strength.” ― Charles B. Handy
    • "We are not what we own or what we do for a living. We are who we choose to be, which is so much grander than any possession we can possibly acquire". - Alyssa Gross

  3. #18
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,274

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    >a wild Ascended appears!<



    Okay, let's see.

    He's a Metallica fan (which I adore, because so am I) and his favorite album is "....And Justice For All." Conner Kent favors "Ride the Lightning" and "Master of Puppets." There was also a fictional album Clark loved that was a combined effort from a number of varied artists including Prince, a country music singer (Reba something maybe?) and....it might've been one of the Beatles? I forget exactly who was involved, and I couldn't begin to guess what it sounded like. I also believe (though this is maybe more my guesswork than established canon) that he favors the blues, country, and classic/anthem rock. John Mellencamp, AC/DC, the Blues Brothers, and Garth Brooks are all likely in his music collection.

    He's a fan of mustard covered pretzels; there's a street vendor near the Planet that Clark visits on his way to work and these pretzels are responsible for most of the stains on his ties. And of course there's the beef bourgeoisie, though I believe that was a sex joke that writers never let go of.
    You know, I've seen it said that having him literally like beef bourguignon was missing the joke, but since Loeb was a good friend of Maggin I don't think that it's something he would have just misinterpreted.

    I also could have sworn that I remember Hotel California in his apartment during Exile. But he definitely had copies of Art of War and Great Expectations. And with his own writing, in addition to Under a Yellow Sun he wrote The Janus Contract.

    Great write up. As good as I've seen it driven home that over the course of 80 years, Superman has had a pretty absurd amount of small insights into his person.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,345

    Default

    Ascended, as always, impressive

  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    9,633

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    You know, I've seen it said that having him literally like beef bourguignon was missing the joke, but since Loeb was a good friend of Maggin I don't think that it's something he would have just misinterpreted.
    Probably not? I've never heard anyone directly refer to that whole thing. All I know is that it's been said on panel several times, so whatever the original intent, Clark is now a fan of the dish.

    But I'd bet real money that Clark wasn't supposed to literally like it. Apparently Deadpool and tacos are the same way. "Tacos" was really code for.....something else.

    I also could have sworn that I remember Hotel California in his apartment during Exile. But he definitely had copies of Art of War and Great Expectations. And with his own writing, in addition to Under a Yellow Sun he wrote The Janus Contract.
    Now you mention it, I think I do recall seeing the Art of War on his shelf. And I think I've see the Great Gatsby too, among other classics.

    Great write up. As good as I've seen it driven home that over the course of 80 years, Superman has had a pretty absurd amount of small insights into his person.
    Thanks. It really is impressive how fully fleshed out the character is. Damned few fictional characters even come close to have the depth and development that Clark does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    Ascended, as always, impressive
    Many thanks!
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

    Bridge Four!

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    9,633

    Default

    Sh*t. I killed the thread, didn't I?
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

    Bridge Four!

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    4,510

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Sh*t. I killed the thread, didn't I?
    Ascended, only got around to reading your post just recently. I think any Supes fan can appreciate the way you organized those insights. They're details that I think we've all been exposed to but don't necessarily identify when creating a "list" of attributes. And that's partially the wonderful thing about Supes, his long career in print offers lots of subtle details that shape a very dynamic persona. Discovering those subtleties is a big part of the enjoyment.

    I don't think your post killed the thread at all. Let it be an example!

  8. #23
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,274

    Default

    Okay, I pored over his apartment again and those records were Beatles For Sale and The Eagles Greatest Hits. Believe me, it was nagging at my brain this whole time.

  9. #24
    Standing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    9,240

    Default

    Paul McCartney was a Superman fan--at least in HELP! he was--as we see he has several comics on his organ and he's also shown reading another. Dial B for Blog identified which Superman comics they were.

    The joke about boeuf bourguignon is that it's code for sex. That's what I guess, anyway.

    In "Clark Kent Forever--Superman Never," Lois came over to Clark's apartment with a bag full of groceries and cooked him boeuf bourguignon--which Clark had never had, as he comments on it. Then Clark and Lois get romantic on the couch, in front of the TV, before the scene cuts to the next morning as Lois is at the Planet offices still wearing the clothes from the night before. Which, Mister Tact, Steve Lombard comments on--"Same dress as yesterday, huh?"--but editor Julie Schwartz insisted on cutting that line. Even without it, from Lois Lane's happy mood, you can tell she got lucky.

    However, there's no ketchup involved in that story. Why would Clark put ketchup on his meal--that's an insult to the woman who prepared and seasoned it. But one can assume that Clark and Lois don't actually eat the meal most of the time--it's just code for having sex. And the ketchup is maybe another code. Maybe it represents red solar energy or red Kryptonite--something that Clark uses as a marital aid to prolong the experience and give him more human sensations, eh? Could be the red trunks.

    Of course, as Clark hadn't eaten boeuf bourguignon before, that supports the theory that Superman isn't much of a meat eater. In fact, he doesn't need to eat anything. And he only eats the dish Lois has prepared when he is a powerless Clark Kent.

    Also, if Lois and Clark remember their date in SUPERMAN 297 (March 1976) that should mean some of the continuity from the 1970s is still relevant.
    Do not forsake me, oh, my darlin'.
    Although you're grievin', don't think of leavin',
    Now that I need you by my side.
    Wait along, wait along, wait along.

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    9,633

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Okay, I pored over his apartment again and those records were Beatles For Sale and The Eagles Greatest Hits. Believe me, it was nagging at my brain this whole time.
    Ha! Nice. Yeah, Clark's taste in music is a little softer than mine, but you can't deny he's got good taste!

    And Jim, thanks for sharing the story. I couldn't remember the details but I knew it had something to do with them having that dish on a date or something.

    I'm glad you mentioned Clark eating meat; I've been curious how often we've seen him digging into a steak or hot dogs or whatever (on panel,) versus how often we've seen him eat salads and whatever else it is that vegetarians go for. Birthright provided a pretty viable reason for Clark being a vegetarian, but I don't think that's been supported in main continuity (outside of those years when DC tried to make BR itself main continuity). I think the closest we get is the idea that Clark prefers veggies but still has a pretty wide range of foods he enjoys.

    Oh! Speaking of which, another odd quality of Clark's is his sense of taste. The guy has eaten all manner of weird stuff; minerals and rocks, even kryptonite! And he seems to enjoy them too.

    I really like those oddball qualities and Clark's eating habits are among the oddest.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

    Bridge Four!

  11. #26
    Master Hero Vladimir
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Ciudad del Carmen, Campeche, México
    Posts
    190

    Default

    All of those sides of Superman are perfectly valid and it would be good if people saw more of them, because it shows that Superman is more than just a stereotypical goody-two-shoes. I think Bendis is doing a good job in showcasing Superman's sense of humor, while Tomasi and Jurgens focused on his compassion and cleverness. Ultimately it comes down on how to keep all those traits in good balance. Many team-up stories, especially in the Silver Age, saw Superman and his friends lose their more complex natures and be reduced to their more archetypical selves, in Superman's case, the idealized Boy Scout. I think Superman has a huge advantage in being the protagonist of his own stories because the complex and unpredictable nature of the world he lives in gives him the chance to evolve into a more multidimensional and believable character.

  12. #27
    Boisterously Confused
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,039

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    Ah yes, Clark the Reporter is a great one, and I'm sure there are many stories out there where he's focusing on his mission to contribute to the world in that sphere.
    I see Clark the Reporter and His Rebellious Side as intertwined things. I do like Superman as the champion of the downtrodden, but one of the things I liked about the Nu52 relaunch was the idea of Clark as the reporter whose thing is digging into stories about the downtrodden, and throwing awkward light on the privileged.

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    4,510

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I see Clark the Reporter and His Rebellious Side as intertwined things. I do like Superman as the champion of the downtrodden, but one of the things I liked about the Nu52 relaunch was the idea of Clark as the reporter whose thing is digging into stories about the downtrodden, and throwing awkward light on the privileged.
    Great point.

  14. #29
    Master Hero Vladimir
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Ciudad del Carmen, Campeche, México
    Posts
    190

    Default

    It's a challenge to write an effective protagonist because he has to strike a balance between being complex enough to be interesting and normal enough to be relatable. Superman, as the archetypical superhero, is expected to be held to a pretty high standard (ethical, moral, intellectual); so whenever someone gets put in charge of making a new Superman has to bring something new to the table while remaining consistent to what's come before. After 80 years of stories and adaptations, fans already have an expectation on how Superman should be portrayed; so that challenge on making a Superman an effective protagonist still exists to a certain extent, which is in some way related to the different sides of Superman's personality and attitude. Am I making sense here?

  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    9,633

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HeroVladimir93 View Post
    After 80 years of stories and adaptations, fans already have an expectation on how Superman should be portrayed; so that challenge on making a Superman an effective protagonist still exists to a certain extent, which is in some way related to the different sides of Superman's personality and attitude. Am I making sense here?
    I think this probably makes the job harder, actually. Superman's own legend is his biggest enemy; people who have never read a comic in their lives have firmly entrenched ideas about what Superman is supposed to be like. Fans who do read the comics have an even firmer opinion. But there's so much material out there, you could pull a Superman together using nothing but established concepts, traits, and facets already seen in print, and people will still say you did it wrong because you didn't use the stuff *they* want to see.

    The Man of Steel movie is a great example of that. Everyone lost their minds over Clark killing Zod and said it was wildly out of character. But Clark has killed more people than anyone else in the League outside of Hal and Diana. There was plenty of precedent for Snyder's story, but it went against the preconceived notions people have about the character.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

    Bridge Four!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •