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  1. #91
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Please make the same demand for every other male-dominated title. From what I can tell, male side characters in female-led comics are given more agency, more story, and are more plentiful than the female side characters in male-led comics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    Exactly. It's odd to me that someone would pick Wonder Woman out of all the long-running solo titles to complain about the imbalance of female and male characters.
    Because figures like Cassandra Cain, Birds of Prey, and Stephanie Brown were already granted their own agency and titles at least in Post-Crisis. And the Birds of Prey were primarily made of women too. Birds of Prey were cancelled but knowing how precious that property is to DC it'll relaunch again at some point. There's even talk of Lois Lane getting a book by publisher Jim Lee well at least that's what he hinted at. And Lois got to play a huge role in Superman and Action Comics. She was essential to saving her son from the influence of Manchester Black, she even drove the Batmobile and piloted the Hellbat armour for a spell. Catwoman is getting yet another solo title again. Cassandra Cain is hinted to be headlining an Outsiders title and the writer is a real fan of her. Supergirl is already getting another relaunch. Wonder Woman is even leading the Justice League Dark.
    Last edited by The Dying Detective; 06-11-2018 at 09:25 AM.
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  2. #92
    Blue Snowmod Nyssane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Because figures like Cassandra Cain, Birds of Prey, and Stephanie Brown were already granted their own agency and titles at least in Post-Crisis. And the Birds of Prey were primarily made of women too. Birds of Prey were cancelled but knowing how precious that property is to DC it'll relaunch again at some point. There's even talk of Lois Lane getting a book by publisher Jim Lee well at least that's what he hinted at. And Lois got to play a huge role in Superman and Action Comics. She was essential to saving her son from the influence of Manchester Black, she even drove the Batmobile and piloted the Hellbat armour for a spell. Catwoman is getting yet another solo title again. Cassandra Cain is hinted to be headlining an Outsiders title and the writer is a real fan of her. Supergirl is already getting another relaunch. Wonder Woman is even leading the Justice League Dark.
    I'm either not understanding you or you're not understanding me...

    What I'm getting at is that Wonder Woman is the only long-running female title that can be put on par with Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Hulk, Captain America, etc. But you're complaining that her book doesn't have enough men in it, when there's been a very prominently-known issue of the lack of female character focus in male-led solo titles. And you expect Wonder Woman to be the one to fix it by giving a male character more prominent development? I don't know, I really just don't understand that argument. But feel free to correct me if I'm misunderstanding.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    I'm either not understanding you or you're not understanding me...

    What I'm getting at is that Wonder Woman is the only long-running female title that can be put on par with Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Hulk, Captain America, etc. But you're complaining that her book doesn't have enough men in it, when there's been a very prominently-known issue of the lack of female character focus in male-led solo titles. And you expect Wonder Woman to be the one to fix it by giving a male character more prominent development? I don't know, I really just don't understand that argument. But feel free to correct me if I'm misunderstanding.
    I never complained about there not enough men in Wonder Woman's books I am just saying that if you want to highlight the female characters in it then the male characters you include need to be highlighted as well, in other words if a writer wants to write Wonder Woman and include any male characters at all. The writer needs to give the male characters the same good treatment they would give the female characters. In other words equal opportunity for both the female and male characters.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  4. #94
    Blue Snowmod Nyssane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    I never complained about there not enough men in Wonder Woman's books I am just saying that if you want to highlight the female characters in it then the male characters you include need to be highlighted as well, in other words if a writer wants to write Wonder Woman and include any male characters at all. The writer needs to give the male characters the same good treatment they would give the female characters. Otherwise words equal opportunity for both the female and male characters.
    But that's assuming that they never try to do that. We've seen it with Jason (who the majority of fans seem to utterly despise) in Robinson's run. We've seen it with Lennox, Orion, and the First Born (among several others) in Azzarello's run. We've seen it with Tom Tresser in Simone's run. And Steve Trevor has been hit-or-miss since Rebirth, but like him in Rucka's run or not, Rucka did put a lot of work into his character. It's not like writers don't put effort into the male characters in Wonder Woman's world, it's just that they aren't the focus of Wonder Woman, nor should they be.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    But that's assuming that they never try to do that. We've seen it with Jason (who the majority of fans seem to utterly despise) in Robinson's run. We've seen it with Lennox, Orion, and the First Born (among several others) in Azzarello's run. We've seen it with Tom Tresser in Simone's run. And Steve Trevor has been hit-or-miss since Rebirth, but like him in Rucka's run or not, Rucka did put a lot of work into his character. It's not like writers don't put effort into the male characters in Wonder Woman's world, it's just that they aren't the focus of Wonder Woman, nor should they be.
    Yes I get it and looking back at it Rucka did do some work on Steve but I am a little disappointed that in the issue centred on him was not used to flesh him out more. Also when you have Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen who actually got to headline titles for a spell with Lois's lasted over hundred issues. It would be cool to see that happen for Etta and Steve both of whom aside from Hippolyta are just two of Wonder Woman's longest serving supporting characters. And for that to happen they need a role in the stories that would give them the development they need as well as stronger characterisations. Also Tom Tresser wasn't exactly a winner either.
    Last edited by The Dying Detective; 06-11-2018 at 10:15 AM.
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  6. #96
    Fantastic Member Joao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    I never complained about there not enough men in Wonder Woman's books I am just saying that if you want to highlight the female characters in it then the male characters you include need to be highlighted as well, in other words if a writer wants to write Wonder Woman and include any male characters at all. The writer needs to give the male characters the same good treatment they would give the female characters. In other words equal opportunity for both the female and male characters.
    Steve got a lot of attention from Rucka. The point is that besides being a great soldier and having a great heart, he dedicates a good part of his time devoted to his relationship with a woman. This is literally why he's well developed. How many characters can you name that has this kind of relation to a woman?

    We sure can name a lot of women who are great things but dedicate a lot of themselves to a man. BUT. This doesn't mean the same for men and women.

    That's why we can appreciate Rucka's version of Steve. He's a rare type of character and is not bad treated at all.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joao View Post
    Steve got a lot of attention from Rucka. The point is that besides being a great soldier and having a great heart, he dedicates a good part of his time devoted to his relationship with a woman. This is literally why he's well developed. How many characters can you name that has this kind of relation to a woman?

    We sure can name a lot of women who are great things but dedicate a lot of themselves to a man. BUT. This doesn't mean the same for men and women.

    That's why we can appreciate Rucka's version of Steve. He's a rare type of character and is not bad treated at all.
    That in itself is not wrong but on it's own it makes Steve a rather flat character and fails to be his own man which was one of the reasons why the Chris Pine iteration was well-loved he was his own man. For Steve to truly get the respect he never got he needs to be developed into his own man.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  8. #98
    Astonishing Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Another problem is the fact Diana is never seen in the city she is in. Why does the city match Diana and why Diana matches the city? Why London? Yes for the royalty and old history but what else. This is why I think a fake city would work better than a real one. I still think the best way is that the city exists all across the world. Gateway city work if you literally make it a Gateway people in Gateway use portals to go anywhere in the world. The cool thing is wherever they are is that version of Gateway. So if you were in Japan it would be different but the name the same. It gives Diana a place to call her on it doesn't tie her down to any one place.
    Please sign this so we can at least show DC we want Legend of Wonder Woman part 2.

    https://www.change.org/p/comic-fans-...part-2-back-on

  9. #99
    Fantastic Member Joao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Another problem is the fact Diana is never seen in the city she is in. Why does the city match Diana and why Diana matches the city? Why London? Yes for the royalty and old history but what else. This is why I think a fake city would work better than a real one. I still think the best way is that the city exists all across the world. Gateway city work if you literally make it a Gateway people in Gateway use portals to go anywhere in the world. The cool thing is wherever they are is that version of Gateway. So if you were in Japan it would be different but the name the same. It gives Diana a place to call her on it doesn't tie her down to any one place.
    I wouldn't like to see the city overcomplicated in concept, like Metropolis and Gotham aren't. That would only make it more difficult for the concept to stick and, well, make her harder to write. They're just nice cities with distinctive places and look, and matching characters that live in it. I would love to see Gateway actually be a gateway for people all over the world to go and live, immigrants and all. Imagine the great stories that could unfold, Wonder Woman being an immigrant herself. Also the historic aspects to it, some places with Greekish architecture. A monument to Wondie? A great park (central park level of greatness), and maybe bring back the embassy. Voilà.

  10. #100
    Astonishing Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Yea I hope I didn’t make it sound overly complex. It’s just a city that is a gateway to other places. Someone said maybe a few inter dimensions portals but if that’s overdoing maybe not. I know some mentioned that maybe Gateway can also be a place where some of the gods live. A perfect place for the cheetah or Circe.
    Please sign this so we can at least show DC we want Legend of Wonder Woman part 2.

    https://www.change.org/p/comic-fans-...part-2-back-on

  11. #101
    Fantastic Member Joao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Yea I hope I didn’t make it sound overly complex. It’s just a city that is a gateway to other places. Someone said maybe a few inter dimensions portals but if that’s overdoing maybe not. I know some mentioned that maybe Gateway can also be a place where some of the gods live. A perfect place for the cheetah or Circe.
    I would love it to have some sort of forest/"wild", inhabited landascape nearby where they could live!!!

  12. #102
    Astonishing Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joao View Post
    I would love it to have some sort of forest/"wild", inhabited landascape nearby where they could live!!!
    Especially if some of the trees and plants have that mystic and ancient feel to them yet don't look too out of touch. Maybe a few old ruins too.
    Please sign this so we can at least show DC we want Legend of Wonder Woman part 2.

    https://www.change.org/p/comic-fans-...part-2-back-on

  13. #103
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    The main problem with Wonder Woman is the lack of consistency when it comes to her backstory and supporting cast.

    Are the Amazons an advanced female utopia?Or are they a man hating dystopia run by females? This seems to change depending on the writer. Sometimes the same writer will change the nature of the Amazons in the middle of a run.

    What is WW origin? Was she created from a statue? Offspring of a God? Hercules daughter(I think she was at one point)?

    Outside of Steve Trevor and Etta Candy(when the writers remember she exists)what is the deal with her supporting cast? Who is Donna Troy? Where is Cassie? Most of the other Amazons who were part of her supporting cast in the past got shafted over the years.

    Her villains(excluding Cheetah and possibly Giganta)are underused and rarely show up in comics.

  14. #104
    Astonishing Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    The main problem with Wonder Woman is the lack of consistency when it comes to her backstory and supporting cast.

    Are the Amazons an advanced female utopia?Or are they a man hating dystopia run by females? This seems to change depending on the writer. Sometimes the same writer will change the nature of the Amazons in the middle of a run.

    What is WW origin? Was she created from a statue? Offspring of a God? Hercules daughter(I think she was at one point)?

    Outside of Steve Trevor and Etta Candy(when the writers remember she exists)what is the deal with her supporting cast? Who is Donna Troy? Where is Cassie? Most of the other Amazons who were part of her supporting cast in the past got shafted over the years.

    Her villains(excluding Cheetah and possibly Giganta)are underused and rarely show up in comics.
    This why Dc needs an editor. Writers keep trying it to fix something that doesn't exist.

    Also, I would love to see the Amazons back an advance society even if it's more magic based. I mean why should they be frozen in time. There should be amazons curious about how the Amazons should move forward.
    Please sign this so we can at least show DC we want Legend of Wonder Woman part 2.

    https://www.change.org/p/comic-fans-...part-2-back-on

  15. #105
    Spectacular Member LadyP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    This why Dc needs an editor. Writers keep trying it to fix something that doesn't exist.

    Also, I would love to see the Amazons back an advance society even if it's more magic based. I mean why should they be frozen in time. There should be amazons curious about how the Amazons should move forward.
    Agreed with bolded portion.
    I do not believe that Wonder Woman is hard to write. I believe the problem arises when you have writers who either don't understand the character or know enough about her writing her. It also stems from a lack of consistency and thoughtfulness.

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