Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ... 2345678 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 106
  1. #76
    Astonishing Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,472

    Default

    I like Rucka's balance of how the Zeus origin should be done. However, I do like the Clay origin. I also wonder should Diana ever have been born from a God? Why not a regular man. I would have loved Diana being around other children but not like New 52. Since all were bullies. Like Mala returns.


    Do you guys think sex pirates could have worked if the Amazons didn't kill the men and didn't get them drunk? I mean they could have just gone to the nearest port city
    Please sign this so we can at least show DC we want Legend of Wonder Woman part 2.

    https://www.change.org/p/comic-fans-...part-2-back-on

  2. #77
    Incredible Member kjn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    836

    Default

    I also like Diana growing up with other kids, and I think I managed to work out one possible way to both have my cake (the clay origin) and eat it (have other kids around). One can even keep Jason around under this approach.

    After they freed themselves from slavery, several Amazons were pregnant, and their children were born on Themyscira. The girls were raised on the island while the boys were left in the care of the gods (likely Hermes and Artemis). But Hippolyta also desired a child (maybe she gave birth to a boy, or miscarried), prayed to the goddesses[1], sculpted Diana from clay, and Diana was given life.

    Now, in telling Diana's origin story this need not be spelt out, it can be kept in reserve as a later story. But it gives a hook for Diana finding a brother in man's world, it gives something the older Amazons can feel shame about while not being a big dark secret or ongoing evil, it gives Diana peers during her childhood, and it gives us three "generations" of Amazons: the original ones, those born in Man's World, and those born on Themyscira. For whatever reason, only the last group can safely leave Themyscira.

    (I do think many of the origin stories have become extremely front-loaded of late. I think a lot of the backstory—for Diana that includes just about everything before Steve crashes on the island—can be kept rather vague and in reserve for later stories. The movie had a decent balance, accomplished by focusing only on Diana.)

    [1] I've never thought it made sense that Hippolyta prayed to Aphrodite to give life to Diana. That's not how polytheistic religion works; rather one prayed to the specific god that was appropriate for a specific function. Artemis was the goddess of children and childbirth, and Hera of motherhood; both make more sense. She likely prayed to Aphrodite (Hestia) too, as the specific patron of the Amazons, but here I think the specific functions would take precedence.

  3. #78
    Astonishing Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,472

    Default

    I wonder what if Hippoltya was the one to sculpt Diana and made a deal with Artemis that any of the Amazons who want Children would pray to her and it was the ones who had miscarriages first than the amazons who were born on the island asking for children ? I don't think it should be too many children on Paradise Islands but enough to have a diversity of generations. That Diana and the other children are able to use the magic sphere and try to make their own version of tech from the outside world.

    What if the Banas were first on the island were the ones who kidnapped the male children instead of the amazons given them to the guys and the only a few males were actually given to the gods.
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 06-10-2018 at 11:18 AM.
    Please sign this so we can at least show DC we want Legend of Wonder Woman part 2.

    https://www.change.org/p/comic-fans-...part-2-back-on

  4. #79
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    103

    Default

    I don't think it's so much that Wonder Woman is hard to write as Wonder Woman does not have a lot of solo appearances media appearances to give people a foundation of the character. Most people still see Superman based on the Christopher Reeves version in the 70s and people have various ideas for Batman depending on the 60s series, animated series, the first two Burton films or the Nolan trilogy. (I've never heard anyone base their opinion of Batman based on Batman Forever or Batman and Robin.) I wouldn't be shocked if moving forward more people base their Wonder Woman on the template Gadot/Jenkins have given us.

    Lastly, I think Wonder Woman is a character that suffers in a group setting as Batman - especially - overshadows everyone and to a lesser extent Superman. Wonder Woman needs more solo tales being it movies, television, video games, etc., so people can understand the character more.

  5. #80
    Astonishing Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,472

    Default

    So far only, Lynda Carter, is the most people had known as Wonder Woman.
    Please sign this so we can at least show DC we want Legend of Wonder Woman part 2.

    https://www.change.org/p/comic-fans-...part-2-back-on

  6. #81
    non-super & non-hero jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,039

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    So far only, Lynda Carter, is the most people had known as Wonder Woman.
    I wouldn't underestimate the Justice League cartoon as an influence, I still remember when the Green Lantern movie came out people were surprised he was white because of it.

  7. #82
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    301

    Default

    She's probably not hard to write if you genuinely love and appreciate women, and don't use her to make political points.

    There is a difference between the masculine as male and feminine as female; each contains some essence of the other.

    Wonder Woman has a masculine (warrior) side to her, but is still totally female and not anti-male.

    Similarly, some of the best male characters around her have caring, loving, even sometimes nurturing sides to them but are still fully male and not anti-female.

    If you remember that the masculine is an essence with characteristics and likewise the feminine is an essence with characteristics, separate from male or female 'identities' as persons and genders, then Wonder Woman becomes fully woman and fully divine/Amazonian, etc.

  8. #83
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Look East
    Posts
    4,774

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zodlike View Post
    She's probably not hard to write if you genuinely love and appreciate women, and don't use her to make political points.

    There is a difference between the masculine as male and feminine as female; each contains some essence of the other.

    Wonder Woman has a masculine (warrior) side to her, but is still totally female and not anti-male.

    Similarly, some of the best male characters around her have caring, loving, even sometimes nurturing sides to them but are still fully male and not anti-female.

    If you remember that the masculine is an essence with characteristics and likewise the feminine is an essence with characteristics, separate from male or female 'identities' as persons and genders, then Wonder Woman becomes fully woman and fully divine/Amazonian, etc.
    Unfortunately some like Greg Rucka love strong women a little too much to the point the male characters don't get much by way of good treatment or at least Steve Trevor didn't under his pen he gave him a voice but he wasted by having Steve waste an issue worshiping Wonder Woman. You need a writer that can both understand and appreciate women while at the same time remembering that the male characters also need equal treatment otherwise you might as well take away all the male characters.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  9. #84
    Incredible Member Skedatz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    609

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zodlike View Post
    She's probably not hard to write if you genuinely love and appreciate women, and don't use her to make political points.

    There is a difference between the masculine as male and feminine as female; each contains some essence of the other.

    Wonder Woman has a masculine (warrior) side to her, but is still totally female and not anti-male.

    Similarly, some of the best male characters around her have caring, loving, even sometimes nurturing sides to them but are still fully male and not anti-female.

    If you remember that the masculine is an essence with characteristics and likewise the feminine is an essence with characteristics, separate from male or female 'identities' as persons and genders, then Wonder Woman becomes fully woman and fully divine/Amazonian, etc.
    I don't think many writers set out to make big political points so much as we interpret them as political points. Some do for sure, but most are just trying to tell a story about a character. The concept of compassion towards fellow women as a person born and raised on an island which had laws banning men is in itself seen as political by many who "care" about the politics of comics.

    That said? For me the politics in her book aren't really a problem, since she's a character who naturally would conflict with societal norms (and therefore often political views) with how she handles fights, speeches, and roles in society. It's just if we want them to be a problem for us as readers.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Unfortunately some like Greg Rucka love strong women a little too much to the point the male characters don't get much by way of good treatment or at least Steve Trevor didn't under his pen he gave him a voice but he wasted by having Steve waste an issue worshiping Wonder Woman. You need a writer that can both understand and appreciate women while at the same time remembering that the male characters also need equal treatment otherwise you might as well take away all the male characters.
    That's more because Steve is a supporting character in her book. While he was always amazed by Wonder Woman, he wasn't exactly worshiping her or anything. Reverence, respect, and astonishment are more what he practices.
    Last edited by Skedatz; 06-11-2018 at 07:47 AM.

  10. #85
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Look East
    Posts
    4,774

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Skedatz View Post
    That's more because Steve is a supporting character in her book. While he was always amazed by Wonder Woman, he wasn't exactly worshiping her or anything. Reverence, respect, and astonishment are more what he practices.
    Yeah but in this day and age even the standard for supporting characters has risen so high that it is expected for writers to treat supporting characters like people as well or they risk becoming boring. And in no way do Steve and Etta meet that standard well people will want him and to be taken out of the book as soon as possible. Okay maybe not worshiping her but his issue which would have served a better prupose by fleshing him out and treating him like his own man still wound up revolving around her and that is not good. Lois Lane and Catwoman are love interest for the character they support but they are treated like people and were well developed characters which helped give them a very lasting impact on the readers. Steve on the other hand never got such treatment except the Chris Pine version.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  11. #86
    Blue Snowmod Nyssane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,124

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Unfortunately some like Greg Rucka love strong women a little too much to the point the male characters don't get much by way of good treatment or at least Steve Trevor didn't under his pen he gave him a voice but he wasted by having Steve waste an issue worshiping Wonder Woman. You need a writer that can both understand and appreciate women while at the same time remembering that the male characters also need equal treatment otherwise you might as well take away all the male characters.
    I think it's pretty silly to go into a Wonder Woman book expecting to see as many male characters as you do female characters, or expecting the male characters to get equal treatment (not sure exactly what you mean by this; equal development/characterization/what?). The same as it's silly to expect to see as many female characters as male characters in Batman or Superman or any of the other countless male-leading solo titles, where their rogues galleries and supporting casts are predominantly male.

    As for it being difficult to write Wonder Woman, well... clearly many do find it as such, otherwise we wouldn't get such lambasted runs like Robinson's, Finch's, Stracynzski's, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    Lois Lane and Catwoman are love interest for the character they support but they are treated like people and were well developed characters which helped give them a very lasting impact on the readers. Steve on the other hand never got such treatment except the Chris Pine version.
    Lois Lane and Catwoman have had decades of amazing portrayals, both in comics and in other media. Steve Trevor's comic book history is almost as messy as Diana's own. If writers had a more consistent portrayal of the character after Marston and up until Rebirth, he might have fared better as "the male love interest." The biggest blow to the character was obviously during Perez's post-Crisis run which made him older and more of a mentor figure for Diana. But I think with Chris Pine's adored performance as Steve, we'll start seeing a better version of the character more consistently through the comics. And for the record, I thought Rucka's Steve was just fine.

  12. #87
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jump View Post
    I wouldn't underestimate the Justice League cartoon as an influence, I still remember when the Green Lantern movie came out people were surprised he was white because of it.
    I actually think the cartoon has already affected Wonder Woman history greatly. In the cartoon she was the daughter of a God (Hades), she stole her Amazonian weapons (like the movie), and the current Cheetah Rebirth design is quite similar to the Justice League cartoon design.

  13. #88
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Look East
    Posts
    4,774

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    I think it's pretty silly to go into a Wonder Woman book expecting to see as many male characters as you do female characters, or expecting the male characters to get equal treatment (not sure exactly what you mean by this; equal development/characterization/what?). The same as it's silly to expect to see as many female characters as male characters in Batman or Superman or any of the other countless male-leading solo titles, where their rogues galleries and supporting casts are predominantly male.

    As for it being difficult to write Wonder Woman, well... clearly many do find it as such, otherwise we wouldn't get such lambasted runs like Robinson's, Finch's, Stracynzski's, etc.
    What I am basically saying is that the male characters in Wonder Woman need be as interesting as the female characters and to have roles like they do. If they are as interesting watching pain dry or serve no purpose in the story then you are better off taking out the male characters if that's how you are willing to treat the male characters useless and uninteresting. No one needs dead weight in a story otherwise you get bored. Also according to user Restingvoice Meredith Finch flat out refused to read up on Donna Troy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    Lois Lane and Catwoman have had decades of amazing portrayals, both in comics and in other media. Steve Trevor's comic book history is almost as messy as Diana's own. If writers had a more consistent portrayal of the character after Marston and up until Rebirth, he might have fared better as "the male love interest." The biggest blow to the character was obviously during Perez's post-Crisis run which made him older and more of a mentor figure for Diana. But I think with Chris Pine's adored performance as Steve, we'll start seeing a better version of the character more consistently through the comics. And for the record, I thought Rucka's Steve was just fine.
    You are correct but Lois had just as many bad portrayals as Steve as sometimes she came off as a bit of stalker in the Silver Age and tried to use tricks to make Superman marry her. But when Post-Crisis hit they gave Lois a makeover that helped improve her character. Steve got shunted sideways for no reason though according to a person I know Steve and Diana's relationship wasn't likable thanks in part to the poor portrayals after Marston and the original crowd who wrote Wonder Woman died or left. What's funny about the Chris Pine Steve Trevor is that Robinson said in an interview he wanted to draw inspiration from that iteration but he clearly failed to do it right. I wouldn't say Rucka's Steve wasn't all bad after looking back at it but Rucka really should have taken the opportunity to give Steve more independence of Diana show that he truly is his own man more. Even Jimmy Olsen has independence from simply being Superman's pal.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  14. #89
    Incredible Member kjn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    836

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    What I am basically saying is that the male characters in Wonder Woman need be as interesting as the female characters and to have roles like they do. If they are as interesting watching pain dry or serve no purpose in the story then you are better off taking out the male characters if that's how you are willing to treat the male characters useless and uninteresting.
    Please make the same demand for every other male-dominated title. From what I can tell, male side characters in female-led comics are given more agency, more story, and are more plentiful than the female side characters in male-led comics.

  15. #90
    Blue Snowmod Nyssane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,124

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Please make the same demand for every other male-dominated title. From what I can tell, male side characters in female-led comics are given more agency, more story, and are more plentiful than the female side characters in male-led comics.
    Exactly. It's odd to me that someone would pick Wonder Woman out of all the long-running solo titles to complain about the imbalance of female and male characters.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •