A question about Hobgoblin

[Turlast]

Now throughout my yrs reading Spider-Man, Hobgoblin has always been one of the more interesting villains. The mystery around his identity, the dupes, and the fact that the mantle was always being taken up by someone made it so you'd always want to keep up with his stories to avoid further confusion. It's been a lot of fun going back and reading older Hobby stories to connect the dots on many things.

As I was reading through #250-251, Roddy appeared to be frozen in fear when Spidey arrived to question him. Eventually I realized that this was Daniel impersonating him since Hobgoblin was clashing with Spidey while he was watching. The Hobgoblin Lives mini also made it clear since Daniel was constantly in fear about everything there. Dude was scared of his own shadow. Stern definitely kept his personality intact.

What I found odd was Hobby's appearance in Big Time. He showed up to an Osborn hideout, played around with some of the new tech, and was perfectly fine with the idea of killing Urich to prevent him from complicating things. Honestly, this doesn't seem like Daniel Kingsley at all. The same guy was ready to shoot Roddy to save Betty and stop him from harming others. For him to go from that to is hella OOC. This happens constantly in the Marvel universe, but this one just seems outta place.

Was there anything implying that the Hobgoblin Urich sliced was originally Roddy? Based on his dialogue and how aware he seemed about the situation, you'd think it was actually him in the costume. He had the personality of the real Hobgoblin.

I didn't read Big Time when it was initially published, so I unfortunately wasn't around to see the discussions.

[bob.schoonover]

It's a bit unclear what Daniel was doing in the first place (not that it's a plot hole, but just something left understated). There's certainly a possibility, because of how long he was off screen, that Daniel had stopped being a sniveling mess after Roderick was found out (it's been awhile since I read Hobgoblin Lives, but I recall it either being implied or stated that Daniel was brainwashed into complying w/Roderick's demands).

There are 13 years of real time between HL and BT (so, maybe 1-2 years Marvel time?) in which the brothers were off gallivanting across the countryside having adventures - I'd read a mini about it

[WebSlingWonder]

So, the Hobgoblin that Urich killed was initially thought to be Kingsley, but Slott then went back and said it was a brainwashed body double. He wrote it so that Kingsley used the Winkler Process to brainwash victims into thinking that they were the Hobgoblin (which was pretty messed up to be honest).

[Turlast]

Roddy threatened to use the Winkler brainwashing machine on Daniel if he was going to start going against his requests, so that was all him. He probably felt he was obligated to do what he was told because Roddy is his brother.

I agree that Daniel could've changed since then. It's just funny seeing him go from being a guy that quickly fainted after being snatched by the Green Goblin on the glider to operating one himself sometime later. He just seems like a guy that's naturally paranoid and quick to avoid conflict. Inside of Osborn's hideout, he appeared to sense Urich by way of smell. With his enhanced physiology, that doesn't seem like an unlikely ability for him. Not sure if Norman displayed anything like that before, but since his power was greatly enhanced, heightened senses doesn't seem too far-fetched. I dunno. I suppose it's possible for Daniel to have been exposed to the formula, though it seems very unlikely.

It's interesting to think about, at least.

So, the Hobgoblin that Urich killed was initially thought to be Kingsley, but Slott then went back and said it was a brainwashed body double. He wrote it so that Kingsley used the Winkler Process to brainwash victims into thinking that they were the Hobgoblin (which was pretty messed up to be honest).

Ah, yeah. That was the Hobby killed during the Goblin Nation arc, I believe.

[Mister Mets]

So, the Hobgoblin that Urich killed was initially thought to be Kingsley, but Slott then went back and said it was a brainwashed body double. He wrote it so that Kingsley used the Winkler Process to brainwash victims into thinking that they were the Hobgoblin (which was pretty messed up to be honest).

Didn't Kingsley do that to Lefty Donovan before? There is precedent for it.

[Mistah K88]

Didn't Kingsley do that to Lefty Donovan before? There is precedent for it.

Yeah Lefty did get brainwashed by Kingsley to test out the Goblin formula, though he did start coming to after a beating from Spider-Man. Ned Leeds also went under the influence of the Winkler process. I believe that it was said that over exposure started to have Ned act irrational and out of character and also start going against Kingsley's desires. So there is also precedent for someone who has been brainwashed under the Winkler process can act out of character.

The only thing that puzzles me is WOULD Roderick waste his brother like that? Not out of some brotherly love or anything, but a valuable civilian body double. It's easy to have a body double for a garish mask and costume, but a bit harder for a casual civilian face (unless you hire the Chameleon). Then again, in the world of genetically modified actresses it isn't that hard of a possibility to have a civilian body double nowadays...