Thoughts On Shaking Up Marvel's Street Level Heroes

[Tien Long]

Hey all. Just thought I'd ask your opinions on the topic of shaking up the Marvel's street level heroes. Indeed, the notion came to me while reading Daredevil #600, particularly when I read this page:



Pretty cool page, right? All of the street level heroes teaming up, ready to help one another take down the bad guy. However, it definitely reminded me of this splash page from the last issue of Defenders:



which suddenly reminded me of Shadowland:



My point is I feel like I've seen this splash page many times. Although there are variations of characters here and there, it just seems to be the same thing, street level heroes on a NYC rooftop ready to take down Kingpin or the Hood.

Now, I'm a street level fan through and through. Characters that rely on just a few noteworthy abilities and skills who dispense justice on city streets, especially NYC ones, will always have a place in my heart. Still, part of me wants to see something different. Maybe it's a new cast of characters who consider themselves street. Maybe it's a new city, like Chicago, Detroit, or Los Angeles. Maybe it's how the street heroes arrange themselves, like a faction that centers around a particular hero (i.e. Daredevil with Blindspot and Echo, Iron Fist with Victor Alvarez and Pei, Spider-Man with Miles, Luke Cage with Misty and Colleen, the White Tigers centering around the Ayala family).

In any case, what do you have to say? Should there be any changes to Marvel's street level characters? If so, what changes would you make?

[Frontier]

I'm looking at that Defenders shot and thinking that some of those characters have no business posing with all those street-level heroes.

And is that Etrigan the Demon behind Blade and Kate Bishop ?

[Anthony W]

I think "street level" comics will be looked back on like the horror comic phase Marvel went through. Something that had a moment. I have no problem with that because I never cared for street level comics, but since you asked.

1. Some of these heroes need to leave NYC. I think NYC will be okay, because every hero seems to hang out there. Speaking of which...

2. Some of these heroes are slumming it. Looking at you Moonknight, Luke Cage and Iron Fist. They are not street level.

3. Some of you may disagree, but I have never seen Spider-Man as "street level". I see him as "well rounded". He doesn't belong in street level group shots.

4. Bendis is gone, we can stop pretending to like Jessica Jones now. The character is a cynical drunken bastard with a heart of gold. Soooo....she is like every Warren Ellis character ever with the added "bonus" of Bendis speak. Hooray?

[comicscollector]

Dunno.
But i think a better focus on defining the street level super heroes would be welcome.
Only Daredevil and Spider-Man seem to be the best super heroes that are really writen as being street heroes level.
With the improvements that the x-men comics had,Avengers and Thor comic books i am hoping to more and better street level comic books will be made as well,

[K7P5V]

I'm looking at that Defenders shot and thinking that some of those characters have no business posing with all those street-level heroes.

And is that Etrigan the Demon behind Blade and Kate Bishop ?

That's not Etrigan the Demon.

I believe that's Isaac Christians AKA The Gargoyle.

[ed2962]

I'm looking at that Defenders shot and thinking that some of those characters have no business posing with all those street-level heroes.

And is that Etrigan the Demon behind Blade and Kate Bishop ?

That's Gargoyle. He was part of the Defenders line up back in the 80's.

And while I appreciate Howard the Duck being in that shot, I have issues with artists that draw him with human proportions...

[Digifiend]

Had Bendis not left Marvel, it certainly seems that Defenders would've expanded past the four Netflix heroes. Misty and Colleen certainly belong there, since they often work with Luke and Danny.

[DragonsChi]

2. Some of these heroes are slumming it. Looking at you Moonknight, Luke Cage and Iron Fist. They are not street level.

3. Some of you may disagree, but I have never seen Spider-Man as "street level". I see him as "well rounded". He doesn't belong in street level group shots.

Street level has more to do with the type of crime they face as opposed to power levels. All of the characters listed have more or less dealt with crimes that deal with mobsters, gang violence, neighborhood terrorist, ect. on a regular bases. They at times play outside their individual sandboxes form time to time but they always come back to their roots.

Hey all. Just thought I'd ask your opinions on the topic of shaking up the Marvel's street level heroes. Indeed, the notion came to me while reading Daredevil #600, particularly when I read this page:


Pretty cool page, right? All of the street level heroes teaming up, ready to help one another take down the bad guy. However, it definitely reminded me of this splash page from the last issue of Defenders:


which suddenly reminded me of Shadowland:



My point is I feel like I've seen this splash page many times. Although there are variations of characters here and there, it just seems to be the same thing, street level heroes on a NYC rooftop ready to take down Kingpin or the Hood.

Now, I'm a street level fan through and through. Characters that rely on just a few noteworthy abilities and skills who dispense justice on city streets, especially NYC ones, will always have a place in my heart. Still, part of me wants to see something different. Maybe it's a new cast of characters who consider themselves street. Maybe it's a new city, like Chicago, Detroit, or Los Angeles. Maybe it's how the street heroes arrange themselves, like a faction that centers around a particular hero (i.e. Daredevil with Blindspot and Echo, Iron Fist with Victor Alvarez and Pei, Spider-Man with Miles, Luke Cage with Misty and Colleen, the White Tigers centering around the Ayala family).

In any case, what do you have to say? Should there be any changes to Marvel's street level characters? If so, what changes would you make?

I agree with you. Something should happen to shake up the status quo of the street heroes at Marvel. I really think the recent Defenders title could have really helped with that.

Another thing I think could be done is a more interconnecting Hero and Crime networks. Where the heroes nor the villains have to be on a team purse but they are all working together. Thereby having them in a state of constant stalemate that last longer then a few story arches. If writers/marvel want people to care about certain characters they have to give them reasons to care. By having real networks taking place that perpetuate but are not intrusive, natural interest is sparked so that the reader is being "sold" but does not feel as though they are.

Example: Spider-Man goes "Let me call Danny Rand...he might know something about these for hire mystic Kung-Fu crooks" .

This peaks interest in a reader who is unaware of Danny Rand, while also giving the long time fan a reminder that this guy is around kicking butt in another title that is on the stands. Questions that have the tune of who is he, what can he do, how does he know, what makes him an authority and so on. Are all questions that draw interest and thereby naturally pushes buyers to purchase more items. Same goes for villains.

Is this way full proof? No, not by any means but having this nature in Marvel Books where it's not over done or forces readers to purchase to get the full story is part of the reason Marvel excelled in it's early days. Stories where Thor would be mentioned in a Spidy book because he was 3 blocks over stopping some catastrophe while Spider-Man was dealing with his own. Or when characters would actually call each other just to talk or for info.

Yes, this type of thing does happen somewhat today but most of the time it seems that it's just to push the next money grabbing event or in some superficial way.

Another thing I would like to mention....with all this hero vs hero stuff a lot of the time when characters are together they feel more like strangers to me. Even when they are sharing "personal moments" together it almost feels cheap and unearned. Which may have to do more with the individual writing of each given book but I tend to lean that its more of a line wide problem.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter.

[Anthony W]

Street level has more to do with the type of crime they face as opposed to power levels. All of the characters listed have more or less dealt with crimes that deal with mobsters, gang violence, neighborhood terrorist, ect. on a regular bases. They at times play outside their individual sandboxes form time to time but they always come back to their roots.

Awhile back Marvel used a term called "crimefighter". it's much better and not as limiting as street level. Moonknight battles the supernatural and regular criminals. Trying to say he is street level is silly. Danny Rand has an insane origin where he kicks a dragon's butt and gets the Iron Fist. As for Spider-Man...do I really have to give any examples why street level is limiting to him? The dude just got done fighting a symbiote wielding Norman Osborn. It's like trying to hammer a square peg into a small round hole.

This whole "street level" thing feels like specialization taken to such a ridiculous extreme that it becomes limiting to the hero and the audience.

[DragonsChi]

I always felt that it is only a problem if you think into it to hard. It's just another term in a long list of terms to make it simpler to say what type of story the author is writing. At the end of the day "Street Level" Heroes are the ones that go out on patrols, perform stake outs, and do actual detective work. The purpose of the term was to sum it all up for someone so that they can move forward with whatever the author is going to say next. Street Level Heroes don't usually get their mission from the government, wait around for a disaster to happen, and don't usually travel out of their general location. (ex: They won't really be chasing threats into other states, space, parts of the globe ect.)

Fans more or less took the term to "lessen" certain heroes. When in truth several "Street Level" Heroes could beat other heroes fairly easily due to their skill, skill sets, and because of the will that has been imbedded into them by dealing with the perpetual under belly of the street criminal world.

[Dragonick]

Is there even a proper term for the type of story that exists between street level and cosmic? I know espionage has to be somewhere in there, and I guess international would be fitting but I don't really see that used.

[Thursaiz]

I've always felt that it lessens the likability of most of the street-level characters when you mix them with bigger heroes who have no place fighting crime in New York. It reminds me of a WWE wrestler who tries to 'put over' the smaller guy by allowing him to beat the villain.

It would be like Doctor Strange saying "Gosh, it's a good thing Luke Cage was here to punch Dormammu in the face!" or Professor X admitting to the X-Men that somehow the left-hook of Iron Fist was the key to defeating the Shi'ar Empire after all of the mutants were hopeless combatants.

Keep them on the street, branch out to other cities, bring back Marvel Knights to make it feel more dark, separate them from the global heroes, and stop involving them in unbelievable crossovers fighting villains that are way out of their league. Every time I see Luke Cage, Iron Fist or Daredevil coming along to do battle in space against the Celestials or something, it makes me want to pass on the books completely.

[nickytesla96]

Definitely move some to different cities. Like Nighthawk in Chicago, All-New Ghost Rider and Hawkeye: Kate Bishop in LA, and Astonishing Ant-Man in Miami.

[K7P5V]

I've always felt that it lessens the likability of most of the street-level characters when you mix them with bigger heroes who have no place fighting crime in New York. It reminds me of a WWE wrestler who tries to 'put over' the smaller guy by allowing him to beat the villain.

It would be like Doctor Strange saying "Gosh, it's a good thing Luke Cage was here to punch Dormammu in the face!" or Professor X admitting to the X-Men that somehow the left-hook of Iron Fist was the key to defeating the Shi'ar Empire after all of the mutants were hopeless combatants.

Keep them on the street, branch out to other cities, bring back Marvel Knights to make it feel more dark, separate them from the global heroes, and stop involving them in unbelievable crossovers fighting villains that are way out of their league. Every time I see Luke Cage, Iron Fist or Daredevil coming along to do battle in space against the Celestials or something, it makes me want to pass on the books completely.

Truer words have never been spoken.

Although, I wouldn't mind a special cameo or some sort of minor guest appearance.

[Hypestyle]

Put them in some streets beyond New York City. Houston. Miami. Chicago. Detroit. Denver. Seattle. Phoenix. People act as if "crime" only thrives in NYC. What about all these other towns? There could be dozens of active Kingpins in all these other areas, undeterred.