Daken: Sell Me on this Characther

[KurtW95]

Midnight_v has a great take. Daken is interesting when he’s an evil mass murderer. Sad to see him getting whitewashed and joining the Blue team.

[KurtW95]

Also, I wouldn’t really consider X-23 his daughter. And come on, nobody can take pride in Gabby.

[TheCape]

I agree with this. The perfect fit for him is being the black king of the hellfire club, except based out of LA and Vegas, and where as Wolverine is many times portrayed as an honorable Samurai Berserker and in touch with the wild. Daikin, should be a depraved predator in touch with the post of modern civilization. Reading a book about him should be like reading the best book about Lex Luthor.

Wolverine has his daughters but he should also have a son that he's not proud of and would stop if you could... But he should not be able to through hook or crook, because while Dakin could theoretically out fight him or not... The entire goal is to deny Wolverine that fight unless it's a certain win and an embarrassing one at that.

More importantly the more Wolverine chases him down the more it should look like he's the bad one, coming in late trying to be a dad when he never was, portrayed by Dakin as father that is after him now that he's found legitimate success excetera excetera.

Meanwhile he's actually a high tier power broker involved in lots of things, but he still gets invited to Fantastic Four gatherings and meetings with the Avengers because everyone thinks he's a good guy and that's his cover

Ok, Midnight win this, i actually like this picht, i could see some potentially good stories coming out of this.

[TheCape]

Also, I wouldn’t really consider X-23 his daughter. And come on, nobody can take pride in Gabby.

Yeah, they kind of dropped the ball in their relationship, their thing is basically 'we don't know what to do with eacth other", as for Gabby i think that she can be good, if she is written as an actual character instead of just throwing random humor.

[FIGHT]

Daken is at his best when he is an evil asshole killer. Same with Creed. Writers suck these days tho.

[KurtW95]

Daken is at his best when he is an evil asshole killer. Same with Creed. Writers suck these days tho.

Yep. So sick of X-Men villains all being good now. Keep Magneto, but none of the others that were redeemed in the past few years.

[FIGHT]

Yep. So sick of X-Men villains all being good now. Keep Magneto, but none of the others that were redeemed in the past few years.

Since magneto and Xavier always wanted the same thing it makes sense that he would join the X-Men one day. Same can't be said with Creed and Daken. I mean it could happen but it needs character development thats more than just some lame inversion, imo.

[Silver Fang]

Since magneto and Xavier always wanted the same thing it makes sense that he would join the X-Men one day. Same can't be said with Creed and Daken. I mean it could happen but it needs character development thats more than just some lame inversion, imo.

Well Bunn had that planned it seems. But everyone after him, except Brisson, dropped the ball on it. Now Creed is only inverted when it's convenient. Otherwise he's a villain that the heroes tolerate for some reason.

And he may not even be inverted. The fact that Pak tries t make some mystery out of it seems he's heading for a cliche reveal that the inversion wore off ages ago, but Creed can't stop "being a hero" or some crap.

[AbnormallyNormal]

Well Bunn had that planned it seems. But everyone after him, except Brisson, dropped the ball on it. Now Creed is only inverted when it's convenient. Otherwise he's a villain that the heroes tolerate for some reason.

And he may not even be inverted. The fact that Pak tries t make some mystery out of it seems he's heading for a cliche reveal that the inversion wore off ages ago, but Creed can't stop "being a hero" or some crap.

LOVE your avatar <3

I think what you describe is Pak trying to gradually rehabilitate ole Sabes then and not rely on the stupid magic trick of Inversion forever. Sounds good to me.

Some folks might think it "tames" comics when we lose truly vicious villains but , and I've tried to say this before.... I think audiences nowadays are just more sophisticated by and large and demand explanations/motivation/backstory for even brutal villains. Viewing them as superficial caricatures which all we need to understand is "they're evil" is childish really. And then temptation grows once we establish a more complicated characterization to try having them stick around and maybe be near other prominent characters. That's how come this keeps happening pretty much.

I think the solution is for an even more sophisticated way of storytelling where we really embrace moral relativism and just accept that various characters or groups can be self-viewed as Heroic but perceived by others as Villainous. That way they can alternatively fulfill both roles.

[Silver Fang]

LOVE your avatar <3

I think what you describe is Pak trying to gradually rehabilitate ole Sabes then and not rely on the stupid magic trick of Inversion forever. Sounds good to me.

Like a lot of Weapon X. Good ideas, bad execution. lol Pak used this series as an action sitcom, rather than a compelling story with gritty characters. Bunn excels at that. Pak evidently doesn't. That's why Bunn, or Ed Brisson should be handling Creed.

Even with the last 2 chapters, which I liked, Pak was still failing with the "comedy." And with Sabretooth, the characterization has been clunky. Also, whenever Pak talked about Sabretooth in interviews, his answers showed him to see Creed as a one-note trouble maker who existed to fight Logan. He never talked like he thought Creed had any depth or potential.

Bunn was doing better. Where Creed was good, but still very flawed. When the inversion starts wearing thin, we see him struggle with it. It was set up for a compelling tale of Creed trying to find that balance between magically altered lie and pure monster. THAT could've led to a good organic change for Creed's character, even after it fully wore off.

But Pak seems to clumsily bounce between one-note parody villain and almost-decent Creed. Same way he bounces between Creed being a moron & being somewhat smart. We haven't seen Creed fighting his evil nature like Bunn gave us. He doesn't seem repentant, nor did he seem to care about anybody, anything, or any cause up until these last 2 chapters. He just hung out with Weapon X as a way to kill stuff and not be hounded by heroes about it. We're on a good track, but Pak has a ways to go, and needs more consistency in his story.

Thanks on the Avatar. I hadn't gotten around to reading the Uncanny Annual, and when I did I instantly loved seeing Monet carrying Creed.

[WeaponX]

Yep. So sick of X-Men villains all being good now. Keep Magneto, but none of the others that were redeemed in the past few years.

Agree so much the X-men used to have an awesome rogues gallery and now it’s pitiful because they’re all heroes now. And the irony is the writers are clearly struggling because of it. They don’t have compelling stories anymore because they have to make up lame villains that no one cares about or like Danken are poor imitation of a previous one.

[Wiccan]

Not even sure what his appeal is except he would make a great villain for his 'sister'.

I guess you don't know anything about their relationship? lol. Daken and Laura are pretty close. He even had some little bonding with Gabby lol.

[The Dying Detective]

I guess you don't know anything about their relationship? lol. Daken and Laura are pretty close. He even had some little bonding with Gabby lol.

I know of their relationship and I am disappointed it went that direction instead.

[BishopsJuice91]

I like him, he’s nothing like his father. I wanna a mini were they’re forced to team up and Logan learns more about him personally.

[MakubeX]

I know of their relationship and I am disappointed it went that direction instead.

It's called character development. But I can understand why you don't like it. You have your opinion. Daken isn't just a boring Creed, or a redundant "OG" Wolverine; who really should stay dead, honestly. But that's just, imo. Daken is very unique from Wolverine and his enemies. If being written correctly that is. From Liu and Way's writing. Bendis, Jason Aarron, and Rick Remender had know clue had to write such a complicated-yet, sophestic character like Daken. They only use Daken for character devoplment to elevate...well...Wolverine. Each time Daken continues to grow in his own book at the time, others chose to ignore it, just to make him another Creed who hates Wolverine.

Continuity is the problem with Daken. Each time someone write Daken, its different from the book he's being written somewhere else. Sina had Daken be a villian in his Ice man book. Despite being in ANW helped his sisters. Although, Sina did justified his actions by saying, it was the death seed and it was before ANW. Still, it proves Marvel writers are choosing to ignore others past work. Daken died at the end of his solo. But was revieved, without any explanation by Remender, joining the brotherhood out of nowhere, just so Daken can die again, giving Wolverine unnecessary devoplment. Before he died in his solo, Daken already got his revenge on Wolverine. Leaving him with nothing. So why join the brother hood for? Why kidnap Genesis, despite his own past? Easy. Remender chose to ignore it.

Uncanny Avengers, he was brought back a horseman. We find out the reason why he joined Creed. A bet. He didn't think Logan would have the balls to kill him. How does this sound like Daken? He spouting nonsense about taking him into the school, making him a "good man" like him, to prove Creed wrong. Horrible dialouge, nothing like Daken. Of course, if you recall, it ends with Wolverine beating Daken, but not killing him this time. What was the point of this? Making Logan look good.

Soule and Fawks were doing the right thing, and putting the fixing repairing Daken. Despite his horrible writing in the past, they manage to fix that, too. He was evolving, no longer having a grudge against Logan, some what; acknowledging his hate for was petty. He grew close with Laura. Even more so than Logan ever did, in my eyes. Daken isn't a villain, he sure as hell ain't a good guy. He does what he wants. Daken is a smart, manipulative, SOB -killer. Not conding his actions on that, but that's pretty much a majority of Marvel heroes and villains.

But with Tom Taylor's writing Daken made me fall in love with his character again. It sort of reminded me of Liu's collision. Don't have much time here, I'll explain why I like it next time.

A story I recommend you all should read, if you hadn't already. And now, here we are. Daken is an X-men. (Getting pay to be one, lol) And yet....is now being chewed out by Zombie? Claiming he still hates Wolverine in that other "Hunting Wolverine" book. Once again, writers keep screwing with the character. I'm not implying Daken should be a good guy, or anything. I just want one consistency in one of my favorite character.

You don't have to like Daken, that's fine. (OP) I'm not going to try to convince you. I'm just defending/trying to for one of my faves. But you have to admit,or don't... Marvel writers tends to ignore continuity.


And Daken is waaaaaaay better than Jimmy.