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  1. #76
    CBR got me like.. Maxpower00044's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I actually really like exploring the idea of Batman failing in his no-killing belief, because he faces such intense evil. Maybe it's just me, because I hate the Joker so much, but I like the idea of Batman really struggling with his hatred for the pain these villains have caused for no good reason.



    It's far from new to claim that Batman is the true expression of Bruce's self and morals and philosophy. Deathstroke just made this claim as well. It all depends on what you're trying to say. Because I love the symbolic nature of Batman, I like the idea that the symbol is actually also the reality.



    Same. I like the feeling of having a full run, but it's not worth it to continue on a title you know will never end like Batman or Tec or Superman or Action. That's money I could be buying things I actually like!
    I do agree with the sentiment, but I see Batman as more of punch a guy to death type rather than a swing machete as his face type. I would’ve been more more satisfied with that scene if it was the former.
    "The more 'realistic' superheroes become the less believable they are." - David Mazzucchelli

  2. #77
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxpower00044 View Post
    I do agree with the sentiment, but I see Batman as more of punch a guy to death type rather than a swig a machete as his fave type. I would’ve been more more satisfied with that scene if it was the former.
    I can see that - but I agree more with the way King presented it. It was a moment of weakness (though sometimes I question how weak it is to be enraged by evil), but it's not a prolonged brutality. Batman has to be so completely in control, constantly thinking of things, that him choosing the fastest way to kill the Riddler made sense from the way I see and feel Batman as operating.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  3. #78
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I can see that - but I agree more with the way King presented it. It was a moment of weakness (though sometimes I question how weak it is to be enraged by evil), but it's not a prolonged brutality. Batman has to be so completely in control, constantly thinking of things, that him choosing the fastest way to kill the Riddler made sense from the way I see and feel Batman as operating.
    Why it offended people was because well Batman has always been advertised as incorruptible and won't betray his number one rule to never take a life. In many ways Batman can be considered the ultimate enforcer of the law. ANd it seems that his incorruptible thing has made people dislike King making Batman nearly kill in a moment of weakness.
    "Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he

  4. #79
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    It's been a while since I read the first few trades, is this addressed in-universe or just something King said in an interview? With Death of the Author in place, I don't know if I interpret Bruce being the mask in what I've seen. If Bruce regards himself that way...he's not exactly a reliable narrator.



    I know it's part of the "collector mentality," but I personally don't get this at all. I have bills and shit to pay for, I can't imagine forking over my hard earned money to buy something I hate. I have a collection, but I collect stuff I actually enjoy reading. DC also can't distinguish what dollars come from people who love the run and those who are buying it out of some sort of obligation, so they are just sending the message that they want more of King's run.
    King said it in interview which you can see in his run since we rarely see Batman out of his costume. Modern writers ignoring Bruce and using "he is just a mask!" excuse is the reason why a lot of fans say he is the least interesting part about his mytho and why he feel like he is the least human character which is truly a shame.

    And about your second point, I don't exactly understand this mentality either. But oh well, it's their money and it's up to them if they want to waste it on things they hate.

  5. #80
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    King said it in interview which you can see in his run since we rarely see Batman out of his costume. Modern writers ignoring Bruce and using "he is just a mask!" excuse is the reason why a lot of fans say he is the least interesting part about his mytho and why he feel like he is the least human character which is truly a shame.

    And about your second point, I don't exactly understand this mentality either. But oh well, it's their money and it's up to them if they want to waste it on things they hate.
    He spent a significant amount of time out of costume during War of Jokes and Riddles - both telling the story to Selina, and as Bruce Wayne at the dinner. I don't think that most Batman writers spend an equal amount of time on Bruce Wayne - the comics are called Batman, after all.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  6. #81
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
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    Oh sorry, he only show up out of costume when he is in his bed with Selina. Which if you combined all the panels with him out it, it will barely make an issue.

  7. #82
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    Oh sorry, he only show up out of costume when he is in his bed with Selina. Which if you combined all the panels with him out it, it will barely make an issue.
    I also brought up the dinner scene? I don't know why you're so hostile about this?
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  8. #83
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
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    Is everytime when I disagree with you about something as me being "hostile"? Can't you even take a sarcasm?

  9. #84
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    Is everytime when I disagree with you about something as me being "hostile"? Can't you even take a sarcasm?
    If you're not being hostile, fine. That's not how it's coming across.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  10. #85
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
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    That's not my problem how you view my posts as me being hostile when I literally said nothing offensive to you. Like I said before, if you don't like what I say or can't understand my "intention" behind it, then simply ignore my posts.

  11. #86
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    That's not my problem how you view my posts as me being hostile when I literally said nothing offensive to you. Like I said before, if you don't like what I say or can't understand my "intention" behind it, then simply ignore my posts.
    I'll give it another try to not assume bad faith.

    Why are you ignoring the issue that Bruce hosted the dinner for Joker and Riddler? And what is an appropriate percentage of time to spend on Bruce as Batman and Bruce as himself? And where do appearances as Matches or other disguises fit?
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  12. #87
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
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    I'm not ignoring you because I actually enjoyed the weirdness of that issue. It's still not much either like how I pointed out that compining all the panels with him out of his costume is still nothing in a series that getting close to 50 issues.

    Modern Batman especially needs for Bruce to be more flashed out because it will humanize him which is why I'm excited for next arc with Bruce being without the mask and I hope King doesn't disappoint.

  13. #88
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    I'm not ignoring you because I actually enjoyed the weirdness of that issue. It's still not much either like how I pointed out that compining all the panels with him out of his costume is still nothing in a series that getting close to 50 issues.

    Modern Batman especially needs for Bruce to be more flashed out because it will humanize him which is why I'm excited for next arc with Bruce being without the mask and I hope King doesn't disappoint.
    Part of my disconnect here is that it's my impressionistic reading of the book that there's quite a bit of Batman's inner monologue, so even if you don't get Bruce out of costume, you're still getting quite a bit of his thoughts and reactions, which to me feels like fleshing out. You have his letter to Selina in I Am Suicide, you have his narration for War of Jokes and Riddles. You also have him talking to Diana and Clark and Selina in Superfriends (all four issues), and him talking to Gotham Girl in #6 and #24. You have him at Batburger in I Am Bane, and him talking to his (hallucinated?) mother at the end of that arc.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  14. #89
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
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    The letter wasn't exactly from Bruce since it was from bat to cat and it's in this arc where King said specifically that's Bruce is a mask and Batman is his true self which is a mentality I don't agree and actually think it's not doing his character any favors.

    Like I said, there is few panels here and there, but still nothing compared to how used to before when he used his name to investigate and how Alfred used to remind him that he isn't just Batman. If you have no problem with this, fine by me and I'm just going to agree to disagree.

  15. #90
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    The letter wasn't exactly from Bruce since it was from bat to cat and it's in this arc where King said specifically that's Bruce is a mask and Batman is his true self which is a mentality I don't agree and actually think it's not doing his character any favors.

    Like I said, there is few panels here and there, but still nothing compared to how used to before when he used his name to investigate and how Alfred used to remind him that he isn't just Batman. If you have no problem with this, fine by me and I'm just going to agree to disagree.
    I mean, fundamentally I don't think that "Batman is the real self" is true in a literal sense. Bruce was born Bruce, and he'll always be Bruce. But I think that his actions as Batman more accurately represent his desires and goals than his actions as "Bruce". So I think I am more in agreement with a nuanced interpretation of the statement "Batman is the true self" than I disagree with it.

    It's not that I have no problem with it - I don't agree, for example, with the Batman Beyond story where Bruce says "I don't call myself Bruce in my own head" or something like that. But I don't think Bruce's life as Bruce is terribly meaningful or important to him. I do sometimes have a problem with the "BatCat" thing that King does, which is why I really appreciated that in the second proposal, he used the names Bruce and Selina instead of Bat and Cat like he did in the first proposal.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

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