King Batman Run: Analysis and Enjoyment Thread

[Katana500]

WTF are you talking about?

Batman using dishonorable tactics to win the fight makes complete sense. None of the villain's ever play by the rules - so I have no idea why he should. Way I see it, its Bane's own fault for trusting his enemies word.

Bruce shouldn't risk the future of Gotham and his families safety just so the fight can be on an even playing field.

[Scott Taylor]

How is it Bruce's fault that Catwoman gets involved? He has no control over her. This is like the scene in Winter Soldier when Sitwell tells Cap that throwing him off the roof is not his style, and he's right, then Black Widow sparta kicks him off the roof.

Bruce always fights unfairly, because he has more resources than anyone else. Clark and Diana always fight unfairly because they have more powers than anyone else. Superheros are unfair!

I liked JRJR on this title as well. Kind of wish he were doing this issue. Not that I have a problem with Janin, but JRJR has a certain knack for creating emotion in his character's bodies and faces that Janin lacks.

[charliehustle415]

Hooray! More JRJR fans! I'm not the biggest David Finch fan, but I have to admit - I've grown to appreciate his stuff a lot more this year. Rereading Good Boy, meeting him at a con this year, and seeing his acetate covers really has given me an perspective on more of the intelligent side of his art.



JMS JRJR Spidey for the WIN!!!!!



Wow, a lot more people liking the JRJR than I expected! Hooray!

I wish Janin were working with a stronger inker, honestly. I think it would help. But maybe the darker palette just doesn't fit him super well - Jeromy Cox coloring him on Grayson is where I fell in love with his art, and though I like a lot of what Cheung and Bellaire have done with him on Batman, it hasn't been quite the same.

The final 4 issues being all Janin, that consistency, is exactly what I'm talking about. I want this to feel like King and Janin's story, one with ownership and control. It's part of why I'm happy to hear that King and DC are working to make sure that Mann can do every issue of Bat/Cat. I think a split series can be good - I think Adam Strange is going to be better for it - but there's a sense of coherence, of (I keep saying it) ownership and control that comes with a consistent art team that can't be replicated.

The only issue I have with Janin are his faces (also with Capullo). If you put Bruce, Dick, Jason, or Tim's faces side by side I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

[millernumber1]

The only issue I have with Janin are his faces (also with Capullo). If you put Bruce, Dick, Jason, or Tim's faces side by side I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Sameface, though it gets more attention with female characters, is definitely a problem for a lot of artists. I have the same problem with Finch's Bruce and Dick, actually!

[Chubistian]

Bruce doesn't even respect his poor fella Joker. Damn you Batman!


This reminded me of the "nothing to prove" from Ten Nights of the Beast, where Bruce also "cheated". A storyline that King already referenced in Beasts of Burden, when Batman left the Beast to die in the snow, though in Tyrant Wing an ambiguous scenario is created where the reader gets to decide if Bruce knew or not that the place was under vigilance by the JTTF

[BatmanJones]

How is it Bruce's fault that Catwoman gets involved? He has no control over her.

He says "no help" to get Bane to disconnect his venom and says Catwoman won't get involved but the implication is that her involvement was part of the plan. It's like when he threw a batarang at Hush on "2" when they agreed to attack on the count of "3." The batarangs taped to his back are cheats too.

[charliehustle415]

Bruce doesn't even respect his poor fella Joker. Damn you Batman!


This reminded me of the "nothing to prove" from Ten Nights of the Beast, where Bruce also "cheated". A storyline that King already referenced in Beasts of Burden, when Batman left the Beast to die in the snow, though in Tyrant Wing an ambiguous scenario is created where the reader gets to decide if Bruce knew or not that the place was under vigilance by the JTTF

Yeah, I don't understand where this idea of Batman's honor is coming from.

Batman's whole deal, especially nowadays, is that he ain't gonna kill you but he ain't gonna save you either.

[Steven Caldwell]

Wow, I really miss art like that. It makes me happy seeing it!

[Chubistian]

The plot thickens
Full spoilers ahead

As we suspected, everything is pointing out to Thomas as the man behind it all, and next issue we could uncover the full truth about him. How much did he actually plan, for how long has he been in this timeline, etcetera.

About #82, I think the art was great, it really fitted my tastes as Mikel Janín's lines were clean without showing the influence of 3d modelling and Jordie Bellaire's colors suited the mood of the fight and the ambients where Bane and Thomas dwell respectively. The only mistake here could be Thomas in perfect shape after JRJR showed him pretty wounded last issue, but that will depend in the explanaitions given in the few comicbooks left. Though it's a common mistake when changing pencillers, so of course it could be just an error in the process of making comics.

Tom King delivered a pretty Tom King script, if that makes sense. He referenced past stories done by him and by other writers. We have the "I'm still here" line, Bane's time in the cell with the water filling it every night, the lines Bane delivered in Knightfall now back to bite him in the ass and Batman's desire to break Bane's damn back, among other things. I really enjoyed the whole fight; at first I thought Batman and Catwoman would easily beat Bane, but it was great to see he had so much fight still left; both heroes received some cool moments at the same time that they were in peril and Thomas with the Ventriloquist made for an amazing cliffhanger.

I like the idea of Batman not overcoming Knightfall yet after all these years. It's not the first time I cross with this idea: Morrison used Bane and the back breaker move as a constant way of infusing fear in Batman with the second ghost of Batman and as a mechanism in Last Rites to keep Bruce from finding the truth behind the mind invasion Darkseid's goons were perpetrating, beside referencing Bane breaking Batman's back a couple of times more in his run; in No Man's Land Bruce said that he designed a whole new system of safehouses after Bane invaded Wayne Manor; Leslie mentions to Bruce in Gotham Knights: Veritas Liberat that he is giving false hopes to Bane of finding his father because he still hasn't forgiven him for breaking his back. So Bruce holding such a grudge against Bane and the desire for revenge by breaking Bane's back makes sense and it has been amplified after what Bane has put Batman through in the post-wedding stories

I wonder if Bane will show up in the few issues that remain of this arc. He appears in future covers and a bullet to the head is easy to survive in comicbooks (hey, maybe this was a callback to Beasts of Burden), but for the time being, it appears Thomas is definitely the ultimate boss in City of Bane

[millernumber1]

Excellent analysis, Chubistian! I hadn't even thought of Thomas healing so quickly, though the theories about platinum Kryptonite or super Venom might apply here.

The Knightfall callbacks are pretty great - it's pretty fun seeing Bruce mirroring Bane...though I do wonder what it means beyond just the visual. Bruce's actions towards Bane throughout King's run have raised questions, which your comment about the Gotham Knights story fits perfectly into.

[charliehustle415]

Janin's art definitely stepped up, his faces are so expressive. Usually he illustrates everyone so stoic, but the expressive eyes and mouths show the intensity of the fight.

I wish we weren't spoiled by the announcement of Bat/Cat because if you didn't know about it and seen the hit that Catwoman received you could have sworn she was paralyzed.

[millernumber1]

Janin's art definitely stepped up, his faces are so expressive. Usually he illustrates everyone so stoic, but the expressive eyes and mouths show the intensity of the fight.

I wish we weren't spoiled by the announcement of Bat/Cat because if you didn't know about it and seen the hit that Catwoman received you could have sworn she was paralyzed.

The hit did seem really brutal. I'm very curious to see...at this point, it feels like the Nain Pit HAS to be used for someone. I would prefer it to be used for Alfred, as that seems to be what King setup, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Vordan]

Batman never fights fair, I’m kind of surprised people think otherwise. He’s only got *one* rule after all.

[ermac]

Unfortunately, I think King lost his game somewhere during that run. The build up was incredible but the payoff is leaving me lukewarm. I wish there wasn't a Thomas Wayne in that story and I didn't felt the resolution of the whole Bat-Cat was enough.

And no, Gotham was never Catwoman's. She is being extremely overated as of now.

[charliehustle415]

Unfortunately, I think King lost his game somewhere during that run. The build up was incredible but the payoff is leaving me lukewarm. I wish there wasn't a Thomas Wayne in that story and I didn't felt the resolution of the whole Bat-Cat was enough.

And no, Gotham was never Catwoman's. She is being extremely overated as of now.

I think there was a larger plan afoot with Thomas Wayne especially after Rebirth, but with the delays with Doomsday Clock things went awry; so King is left holding the bag.

I do hope we get an amazing pay off for Thomas.

PS: I see you're reading East of West, I cannot wait for the finale in December!