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  1. #871
    Incredible Member charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Is King's run the longest Batman run on the flagship title?

    Snyder had 52, I think Morrison had around 70, but that was split between Batman, Batman & Robin, and various minis.

    85 issues is quite a lot for any writer but on Batman I would think that is quite an accomplishment

  2. #872
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Is King's run the longest Batman run on the flagship title?

    Snyder had 52, I think Morrison had around 70, but that was split between Batman, Batman & Robin, and various minis.

    85 issues is quite a lot for any writer but on Batman I would think that is quite an accomplishment
    I think it's a good accomplishment. I hope King is able to wrap things up enough with City of Bane, and then get some kind of mini or other series to finish completely. I'm really curious to see how history will remember it. Morrison and Snyder are legends - will King join them? I hope so - I love him way more than the other two.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
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  3. #873
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Is King's run the longest Batman run on the flagship title?

    Snyder had 52, I think Morrison had around 70, but that was split between Batman, Batman & Robin, and various minis.

    85 issues is quite a lot for any writer but on Batman I would think that is quite an accomplishment
    Doug Moench did a 41 issue run, followed by a 79 issue run on Batman. Chuck Dixon had an 86 issue run on 'Tec.
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  4. #874
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    I think we should say that King's run, if it ends at 85, is actually 80 issues long, because of Night of the Monster Men, The Button, and The Price. Though maybe we have to count the Rebirth Special, the Secret Files story, and the Annuals.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  5. #875
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    King just liked a tweet from a guy saying an announcement from DC would quell fears from fans that we won't be getting an ending and left with an unfinished 85 issue run...so, I guess he is planning to finish it?

    I guess that's something, but I really want to know if it's going to be watered down or if he's still being allowed to do what he wants in terms of the story.

    But here's the thing- if DC prefers 7.5 months of random filler until issue 100, over just letting King finish his story, then it has to be the story itself that they don't like, right? In which case, they're not going to let him do whatever it was he was planning on a different title. So whatever "ending" he gets to do somewhere else, it won't be what he had planned and what he was so excited about, I'm assuming.
    Last edited by lilyrose; 05-23-2019 at 09:49 AM.

  6. #876
    mutant and proud ermac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob/.schoonover View Post
    Doug Moench did a 41 issue run, followed by a 79 issue run on Batman.
    My favorite Bat-writer

  7. #877
    Incredible Member charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob/.schoonover View Post
    Doug Moench did a 41 issue run, followed by a 79 issue run on Batman. Chuck Dixon had an 86 issue run on 'Tec.
    Ah, so very close to the top; too bad.

  8. #878
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    We had a good thing going guys, sorry we were leg sweep'd at the finish line.

  9. #879
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    I would say its probably more accurate to compare time lengths on the run rather than issue numbers. Snyder's 52 issues lasted between November 2011 and May 2016, so about 4 and a half years. If it ends with 85 issues, that'll be from June 2016 to December 2019, about 3 and a half years (plus an extra 10 months if it could get to 105).

    Now if we're looking for some more tiny drops of information to help our tin foil hat theories, these are some tweets King liked recently:

    -"Thinking more about King off Batman...some sort of official announcement would do a lot to quell the fears of fans who assume his run won't actually finish, and we're left with an 85 issue uncompleted run."

    -"There is no job or industry that does not have some shady folks. It's all part of the game we call life."

    And then he replied to someone else commenting on 'corporate homogeny snuffing out any spark of individualism':

    "Isn't it a pity; the wrong people always have money."

    Adding Mitch's comments on previously, if I had to give some kind of guess, is that was one of the higher higher ups that got cold feet and forced him out, against the editors wishes, and they're currently in some negotiating phase to be allowed to do the conclusion.

    Alot of articles seem to predict that they're going to end up having fill-in writers handle the book up towards issue 100 and then the new writer will take over there, which while all possible, I feel like would be incredibly stupid. If one because if the supposed reasoning for being kicked off was "low sales" and "slow pacing", how is random one-offs and fillers for over half a year fix this?
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen, West Coast Avengers, Ms. Marvel, Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man, Avengers, Sonic The Hedgehog

  10. #880
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    I would say its probably more accurate to compare time lengths on the run rather than issue numbers. Snyder's 52 issues lasted between November 2011 and May 2016, so about 4 and a half years. If it ends with 85 issues, that'll be from June 2016 to December 2019, about 3 and a half years (plus an extra 10 months if it could get to 105).

    Now if we're looking for some more tiny drops of information to help our tin foil hat theories, these are some tweets King liked recently:

    -"Thinking more about King off Batman...some sort of official announcement would do a lot to quell the fears of fans who assume his run won't actually finish, and we're left with an 85 issue uncompleted run."

    -"There is no job or industry that does not have some shady folks. It's all part of the game we call life."

    And then he replied to someone else commenting on 'corporate homogeny snuffing out any spark of individualism':

    "Isn't it a pity; the wrong people always have money."

    Adding Mitch's comments on previously, if I had to give some kind of guess, is that was one of the higher higher ups that got cold feet and forced him out, against the editors wishes, and they're currently in some negotiating phase to be allowed to do the conclusion.

    Alot of articles seem to predict that they're going to end up having fill-in writers handle the book up towards issue 100 and then the new writer will take over there, which while all possible, I feel like would be incredibly stupid. If one because if the supposed reasoning for being kicked off was "low sales" and "slow pacing", how is random one-offs and fillers for over half a year fix this?
    That part is the most inexplicable thing to me about this whole thing and proves that it has nothing to do with sales. Whatever happened here, happened because either some guy at the top hates King, or they didn't want to go through with his changes, which is particularly awful considering they had him giving interviews touting the rest of his run and THOSE CHANGES SPECIFICALLY, which had already been approved, according to him. And then they just embarrass him by pulling him off the book a week later?

    I don't get it. If it IS about them not wanting to do the changes, how on earth does he get to finish the story properly in any capacity? If they won't let it happen in the Batman book they won't let it happen in anyplace that affects that book and the continuity.

    And if it's not about the changes, and it's just about some guy at the top hating King personally and his whole style (as the BC article implies), then pulling him off the book this close to the end, letting him finish it the way he wants on another title, and having 7 months of pointless filler will certainly not do anything to boost sales and if whatever change he makes affects the canon, then they'll have to deal with it anyway. That makes NO sense, you might as well just let him finish the damn run.

  11. #881
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJudge95 View Post
    We had a good thing going guys, sorry we were leg sweep'd at the finish line.
    I think we'll get more than just 85 as an ending. I'm still really, really frustrated.

    Some people (who don't like the run) are theorizing that this is all a fake drama trying to drum up sales. I think that's unlikely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    I would say its probably more accurate to compare time lengths on the run rather than issue numbers. Snyder's 52 issues lasted between November 2011 and May 2016, so about 4 and a half years. If it ends with 85 issues, that'll be from June 2016 to December 2019, about 3 and a half years (plus an extra 10 months if it could get to 105).

    Now if we're looking for some more tiny drops of information to help our tin foil hat theories, these are some tweets King liked recently:

    -"Thinking more about King off Batman...some sort of official announcement would do a lot to quell the fears of fans who assume his run won't actually finish, and we're left with an 85 issue uncompleted run."

    -"There is no job or industry that does not have some shady folks. It's all part of the game we call life."

    And then he replied to someone else commenting on 'corporate homogeny snuffing out any spark of individualism':

    "Isn't it a pity; the wrong people always have money."

    Adding Mitch's comments on previously, if I had to give some kind of guess, is that was one of the higher higher ups that got cold feet and forced him out, against the editors wishes, and they're currently in some negotiating phase to be allowed to do the conclusion.

    Alot of articles seem to predict that they're going to end up having fill-in writers handle the book up towards issue 100 and then the new writer will take over there, which while all possible, I feel like would be incredibly stupid. If one because if the supposed reasoning for being kicked off was "low sales" and "slow pacing", how is random one-offs and fillers for over half a year fix this?
    DC, hire filler writers to write horrible arcs for their best characters for YEARS? (coughJamesRobinsonOnWonderWomanAndDetectiveComics cough)? It'll never happen.

    I think King has a gag order, quite clearly. Didio on his instagram has been saying that "Tom King is the best" and "He's not going anywhere." https://www.instagram.com/p/Bx0T5VPBpI9/

    DC needs to get on this stat. Nothing is gained by not making some kind of announcment.

    Quote Originally Posted by lilyrose View Post
    That part is the most inexplicable thing to me about this whole thing and proves that it has nothing to do with sales. Whatever happened here, happened because either some guy at the top hates King, or they didn't want to go through with his changes, which is particularly awful considering they had him giving interviews touting the rest of his run and THOSE CHANGES SPECIFICALLY, which had already been approved, according to him. And then they just embarrass him by pulling him off the book a week later?

    I don't get it. If it IS about them not wanting to do the changes, how on earth does he get to finish the story properly in any capacity? If they won't let it happen in the Batman book they won't let it happen in anyplace that affects that book and the continuity.

    And if it's not about the changes, and it's just about some guy at the top hating King personally and his whole style (as the BC article implies), then pulling him off the book this close to the end, letting him finish it the way he wants on another title, and having 7 months of pointless filler will certainly not do anything to boost sales and if whatever change he makes affects the canon, then they'll have to deal with it anyway. That makes NO sense, you might as well just let him finish the damn run.

    If the yank has anything to do with the changes that DC approved (and now maybe has unapproved), I could see him being given a Black Label or other Elseworlds style book to finish the run. That way, he can do his changes, but they're contained to the mini.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  12. #882
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilyrose View Post
    That part is the most inexplicable thing to me about this whole thing and proves that it has nothing to do with sales. Whatever happened here, happened because either some guy at the top hates King, or they didn't want to go through with his changes, which is particularly awful considering they had him giving interviews touting the rest of his run and THOSE CHANGES SPECIFICALLY, which had already been approved, according to him. And then they just embarrass him by pulling him off the book a week later?

    I don't get it. If it IS about them not wanting to do the changes, how on earth does he get to finish the story properly in any capacity? If they won't let it happen in the Batman book they won't let it happen in anyplace that affects that book and the continuity.

    And if it's not about the changes, and it's just about some guy at the top hating King personally and his whole style (as the BC article implies), then pulling him off the book this close to the end, letting him finish it the way he wants on another title, and having 7 months of pointless filler will certainly not do anything to boost sales and if whatever change he makes affects the canon, then they'll have to deal with it anyway. That makes NO sense, you might as well just let him finish the damn run.
    I think a perfect example would be the Fantastic Four getting cancelled in 2015. Everyone knew it wasn't a "sales issue", and it wasn't something the writers and editors wanted, Perlmutter wanted the FF gone so they were forced to do so. They were just lucky in that instance that Hickman's Secret Wars managed to be the perfect temporary ending for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    DC, hire filler writers to write horrible arcs for their best characters for YEARS? (coughJamesRobinsonOnWonderWomanAndDetectiveComics cough)? It'll never happen.

    I think King has a gag order, quite clearly. Didio on his instagram has been saying that "Tom King is the best" and "He's not going anywhere." https://www.instagram.com/p/Bx0T5VPBpI9/

    DC needs to get on this stat. Nothing is gained by not making some kind of announcment.
    And to use some kind of excuse in that instance, Wonder Woman and even Detective Comics still aren't "Batman" level, so its easier for them to pull that off on those characters, as opposed to something like this, especially after spending the past 3 years talking about the "100 issue plan".

    DiDio saying that also kind of proves this isn't his doing and a higher higher up issue, and that DC not saying anything may most likely be some kind of a case of backstage dealing regarding the drama before anything is confirmed officially.

    If the yank has anything to do with the changes that DC approved (and now maybe has unapproved), I could see him being given a Black Label or other Elseworlds style book to finish the run. That way, he can do his changes, but they're contained to the mini.
    That is a possibility, though that will still probably make DC look bad. That would be like if (just using a hypothetical here) if HBO released a second version of Game Of Thrones Season 8 at the same time as the current one. The company's way of saying "We don't really want this, but here you go anyway" which is just bad business all around.
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  13. #883
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    This article speculate that it was indeed the marriage that they didn't want to let happen in the main book: https://screenrant.com/batman-comic-tom-king-canceled/

    They think it'll be allowed as an elseworlds story. Why do these people have to be SO cowardly that they can't let new writers figure out a way to deal with a married Batman? Even for a little while?

  14. #884

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob/.schoonover View Post
    Doug Moench did a 41 issue run, followed by a 79 issue run on Batman. Chuck Dixon had an 86 issue run on 'Tec.
    Alan Grant wrote Batman continuously from 1987-1998, but he bounced from Detective Comics, to Batman, to Shadow of the Bat during that time. He only wrote the “flagship” Batman title briefly, but he still had an impressive run in my opinion.

    Detective Comics #583-597, 601-621, 627, 641-642 (39 issues)
    Batman #455-466, 470-476, 479-480 (20 issues)
    Shadow of the Bat #1-82, #0, #1,000,000 (84 issues)

    That’s 143 issues of regular monthly Batman comics, not even counting annuals, specials, miniseries, etc.
    Post CBR reboot join date: May 2014, Pre CBR reboot join date: April 2005
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  15. #885
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    Help us Dan Didio, you're our only hope.

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