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  1. #1711
    Incredible Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    I'm reading through the last bit of Alan Moore's run in Swamp Thing and I just read issue #56, which I hadn't visited again in quite some time, and I noticed that this can be the inspiration or part of the inspiration for the issue of Knightmares with a dream construct of John Constantine. In the issue of Swamp Thing, Swampy ends up stuck in a world with no intelligent life and he creates a fake world copying the life he had on Earth. The construct of his that confronts him about what he is doing is John Constantine. Just like in Knightmares, this false Constantine appears as the voice of reason convincing the protagonist that he is trapped in a lie
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  2. #1712
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    I'm reading through the last bit of Alan Moore's run in Swamp Thing and I just read issue #56, which I hadn't visited again in quite some time, and I noticed that this can be the inspiration or part of the inspiration for the issue of Knightmares with a dream construct of John Constantine. In the issue of Swamp Thing, Swampy ends up stuck in a world with no intelligent life and he creates a fake world copying the life he had on Earth. The construct of his that confronts him about what he is doing is John Constantine. Just like in Knightmares, this false Constantine appears as the voice of reason convincing the protagonist that he is trapped in a lie
    Nice find! I know King thinks Alan Moore is pretty great, and we know that he also loves Swamp Thing, so odds are good that he is aware of this and making use of the concepts.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  3. #1713

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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Nice find! I know King thinks Alan Moore is pretty great, and we know that he also loves Swamp Thing, so odds are good that he is aware of this and making use of the concepts.
    I'm still trying to understand Damian as Pyg though.

    My reading of the situation is that Father and Son could be happy similar to Pygmalion and his beautiful statue. However, unlike Pygmalion who found happiness with a lifeless statue Bruce will not allow himself to be happy with a flesh and blood son that adores him. I think that's why King had such vivid description of blood, guts, and sinew within the issue.

  4. #1714
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    I'm still trying to understand Damian as Pyg though.

    My reading of the situation is that Father and Son could be happy similar to Pygmalion and his beautiful statue. However, unlike Pygmalion who found happiness with a lifeless statue Bruce will not allow himself to be happy with a flesh and blood son that adores him. I think that's why King had such vivid description of blood, guts, and sinew within the issue.
    That's a good note! I love the story of Pygmalion, and I think the idea I took from 61 (other than the unusually emotional Frank Miller variant cover) was the idea that Batman feels like his family is his creation, his "fault," and that's why he can't be happy with them. He wishes they could live free of his vow.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  5. #1715

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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    That's a good note! I love the story of Pygmalion, and I think the idea I took from 61 (other than the unusually emotional Frank Miller variant cover) was the idea that Batman feels like his family is his creation, his "fault," and that's why he can't be happy with them. He wishes they could live free of his vow.
    Ohh, that's good; that's right the vow plays such a big role. How can he honor his vow to Selina if he is beholden to THE VOW?

  6. #1716
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  7. #1717
    Spectacular Member bat1987's Avatar
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    I'd be really pissed if this doesn't end with bruce beating the living crap out of his father.

  8. #1718
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    Hmm. Thawne doing it as revenge is a nice poetic twist - one wonders if that was always the intention when they were planning out The Button and tying into Doomsday Clock. The art is beautiful, and I'm a sucker for backwards-told stories.
    Blue text denotes sarcasm

  9. #1719
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob/.schoonover View Post
    Hmm. Thawne doing it as revenge is a nice poetic twist - one wonders if that was always the intention when they were planning out The Button and tying into Doomsday Clock. The art is beautiful, and I'm a sucker for backwards-told stories.
    Would reading doomsday clock make reading Batman better

  10. #1720
    Helping the Helpless Denirac's Avatar
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    This Whole thing is retroactively trying to make this make sense: Also Thawne goes "Flash" as he runs off? *Really*, Just 1 More Issue after this Thank God.

  11. #1721

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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Would reading doomsday clock make reading Batman better
    Nope, all you have to read is The Button.


    On the preview; I CANNOT wait! Yes finally this is all I wanted some explanation and the art is gorgeous

  12. #1722
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Nope, all you have to read is The Button.


    On the preview; I CANNOT wait! Yes finally this is all I wanted some explanation and the art is gorgeous
    Fornes is amazing. Very glad he's getting to do some more Batman!
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  13. #1723
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Surprise Fornes appearance is MMMMMMMMMMMM good stuff. I know you want Mann to do everything in Bat/Cat to make it more consistent...buuuuuut if you threw in a Fornes appearance here and there I wouldn't mind at all
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen: Ghost Spider, Sonic The Hedgehog, Absolute Carnage, Friendly Neighbourhood Spider-Man, Gwenpool Strikes Back, Runaways, The White Trees

  14. #1724
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    Surprise Fornes appearance is MMMMMMMMMMMM good stuff. I know you want Mann to do everything in Bat/Cat to make it more consistent...buuuuuut if you threw in a Fornes appearance here and there I wouldn't mind at all
    Neither would I! Or a Lee Weeks special issue...
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  15. #1725
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Looks amazing. Can't believe I never considered Thawne. What a dick that guy is!
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

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