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  1. #1606
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    If not, then using Clayface would have made the most sense since we haven't seen him really since Tynion's run
    I thought the Clayface reveal in "Hush" was terrific but, after that, any use of Clayface to explain away a shocking reveal would have felt like a retread to me. I agree with millernumber1 that the death wasn't set up but the lack of set up works for me too in the way that the sudden loss of a loved one never has a set up IRL. His death scene hit me hard and I didn't much want to see it reversed. My main feeling about Alfred's death is that it creates some very new storytelling possibilities. I only wish we'd get to see King's take on those possibilities. I've been so hooked on this run that everything that comes after it feels a little small. DC's February solicits are the first in a long, long time that seem to hold almost no interest for me at all. Can't wait for Bat/Cat and Strange Adventures.

  2. #1607
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    I thought the Clayface reveal in "Hush" was terrific but, after that, any use of Clayface to explain away a shocking reveal would have felt like a retread to me. I agree with millernumber1 that the death wasn't set up but the lack of set up works for me too in the way that the sudden loss of a loved one never has a set up IRL. His death scene hit me hard and I didn't much want to see it reversed. My main feeling about Alfred's death is that it creates some very new storytelling possibilities. I only wish we'd get to see King's take on those possibilities. I've been so hooked on this run that everything that comes after it feels a little small. DC's February solicits are the first in a long, long time that seem to hold almost no interest for me at all. Can't wait for Bat/Cat and Strange Adventures.
    Interesting. To me, Clayface working with Batman in that way would feel quite different than what happened in Hush, but I can see the perspective.

    It is very true that death doesn't setup in real life. I was just watching Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles last night, and the way they handled major character death in that show was pretty surprising to me, too. So perhaps that was King's point. It just feels like Alfred didn't quite get his due in this run - he had some really great high points, like wearing the Batsuit, the Wedding, and a few others, but he was kind of absent a lot.

    I must admit - DC's solicits for January and February do feel really disappointing to me as well. Combine the lack of Bat/Cat with the ending of Deathstroke, and I'm just kind of adrift right now in the future, which is very sad - first time since Rebirth where I'm not really excited about what's next.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
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  3. #1608
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    I thought the Clayface reveal in "Hush" was terrific but, after that, any use of Clayface to explain away a shocking reveal would have felt like a retread to me. I agree with millernumber1 that the death wasn't set up but the lack of set up works for me too in the way that the sudden loss of a loved one never has a set up IRL. His death scene hit me hard and I didn't much want to see it reversed. My main feeling about Alfred's death is that it creates some very new storytelling possibilities. I only wish we'd get to see King's take on those possibilities. I've been so hooked on this run that everything that comes after it feels a little small. DC's February solicits are the first in a long, long time that seem to hold almost no interest for me at all. Can't wait for Bat/Cat and Strange Adventures.
    Good point, I totally forgot about Hush.

    I do like the idea of Alfred being killed and I agree the possibilities are huge, but I feel like this will be reversed toot-sweet.

    Not only that but Snyder kind of already did it with Alfred getting his hand being lopped off, I wish it was someone new; maybe Tim, Harper, or even Selina.

    With Catwoman being killed imagine the fallout especially with this version of Batman.

  4. #1609
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Interesting. To me, Clayface working with Batman in that way would feel quite different than what happened in Hush, but I can see the perspective.

    It is very true that death doesn't setup in real life. I was just watching Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles last night, and the way they handled major character death in that show was pretty surprising to me, too. So perhaps that was King's point. It just feels like Alfred didn't quite get his due in this run - he had some really great high points, like wearing the Batsuit, the Wedding, and a few others, but he was kind of absent a lot.

    I must admit - DC's solicits for January and February do feel really disappointing to me as well. Combine the lack of Bat/Cat with the ending of Deathstroke, and I'm just kind of adrift right now in the future, which is very sad - first time since Rebirth where I'm not really excited about what's next.
    If you are adrift, come to the shores of Krakoa.

  5. #1610
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Good point, I totally forgot about Hush.

    I do like the idea of Alfred being killed and I agree the possibilities are huge, but I feel like this will be reversed toot-sweet.

    Not only that but Snyder kind of already did it with Alfred getting his hand being lopped off, I wish it was someone new; maybe Tim, Harper, or even Selina.

    With Catwoman being killed imagine the fallout especially with this version of Batman.
    I feel like they've killed too many members in the past 5 years - Dick, Tim, Bruce, now Alfred - to really make it worth it.

    They seem to be memorializing Alfred's death in the Tec annual and a special issue next year, so I dunno. I think it'll stick at least for a year.

    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    If you are adrift, come to the shores of Krakoa.
    Haha. I have been reading a few of the titles of HiXmen, but I'm really irritated that they seem to expect me to buy EVERY title to understand what's going on. I don't appreciate that, as I'm not interested in a lot of the titles, and to make the stories so dependent on each other that you can't read them independently frustrates me a lot.

    On the other hand, a lot of Bat-fans have been saying they want to see that level of coordination in the Batfamily titles for a while...so I dunno.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
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  6. #1611
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    Is it true that there are new rumors that the Bat/Cat book will now not be main universe? Because they insisted it was when it was announced.

  7. #1612
    Incredible Member Gotham citizen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I feel like they've killed too many members in the past 5 years - Dick, Tim, Bruce, now Alfred - to really make it worth it.

    They seem to be memorializing Alfred's death in the Tec annual and a special issue next year, so I dunno. I think it'll stick at least for a year.
    […]
    I think they are trying to reach the X-men ratio of deaths and resurrections.

  8. #1613
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I feel like they've killed too many members in the past 5 years - Dick, Tim, Bruce, now Alfred - to really make it worth it.

    They seem to be memorializing Alfred's death in the Tec annual and a special issue next year, so I dunno. I think it'll stick at least for a year.



    Haha. I have been reading a few of the titles of HiXmen, but I'm really irritated that they seem to expect me to buy EVERY title to understand what's going on. I don't appreciate that, as I'm not interested in a lot of the titles, and to make the stories so dependent on each other that you can't read them independently frustrates me a lot.

    On the other hand, a lot of Bat-fans have been saying they want to see that level of coordination in the Batfamily titles for a while...so I dunno.
    I totally understand, but I only follow the Hickman penned titles i.e. X-Men & New Mutants.

    Back to the topic, I totally forgot about the special; I can imagine it lasting as long as Damian's death.

    Yeah the Bat-Fam have been dying left and right that's why I think Selina would have been good, I would have said Talia but Morrison already did that.

    Unfortunately I think this is how it is going to go for the big TWO superheroes with character deaths for the sales spikes. After December the only Bat books I will be reading is Batman Curse of the White Knight and Bat/Cat and 3 Jokers (when they comes out).

    I am just not feeling the new creative teams, I love Tomasi, but for me his Batman thesis was already told in Batman & Robin and Tynion is good but not enough for me to follow him from title to title.

  9. #1614
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilyrose View Post
    Is it true that there are new rumors that the Bat/Cat book will now not be main universe? Because they insisted it was when it was announced.
    This is what I have been beating the drums about for a while. I feel like it will be a Black Label book, but I haven't read anything about it

  10. #1615
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilyrose View Post
    Is it true that there are new rumors that the Bat/Cat book will now not be main universe? Because they insisted it was when it was announced.
    Those rumors are going around. And honestly, I don't really care if it's Black Label Elseworlds, or main continuity. I just want to read the story King wants to tell. The Annual #2 was an alternate future, and it's one of my favorite issues of all time - so if Bat/Cat is an AU, I'm okay with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    I totally understand, but I only follow the Hickman penned titles i.e. X-Men & New Mutants.

    Back to the topic, I totally forgot about the special; I can imagine it lasting as long as Damian's death.

    Yeah the Bat-Fam have been dying left and right that's why I think Selina would have been good, I would have said Talia but Morrison already did that.

    Unfortunately I think this is how it is going to go for the big TWO superheroes with character deaths for the sales spikes. After December the only Bat books I will be reading is Batman Curse of the White Knight and Bat/Cat and 3 Jokers (when they comes out).

    I am just not feeling the new creative teams, I love Tomasi, but for me his Batman thesis was already told in Batman & Robin and Tynion is good but not enough for me to follow him from title to title.
    I don't really want to kill Selina. That seems pretty nihilistic, at this point.

    I have hopes for Tynion...but the lack of Batfamily in his book is really harshing my wah. Not to mention the new costume he has for Deathstroke makes it seem pretty clear he's going to ignore everything Priest just did.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews, Stephanie Brown Discord

  11. #1616
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Those rumors are going around. And honestly, I don't really care if it's Black Label Elseworlds, or main continuity. I just want to read the story King wants to tell. The Annual #2 was an alternate future, and it's one of my favorite issues of all time - so if Bat/Cat is an AU, I'm okay with it.



    I don't really want to kill Selina. That seems pretty nihilistic, at this point.

    I have hopes for Tynion...but the lack of Batfamily in his book is really harshing my wah. Not to mention the new costume he has for Deathstroke makes it seem pretty clear he's going to ignore everything Priest just did.
    I think the degree to which it matters right now if something is considered "in continuity" by DC is pretty minimal. Even in continuity things get erased or ignored with reckless abandon. Bat/Cat will flow out of City of Bane, regardless of what DC says, so I'll be fine reading it.

    I more or less agree with everything said above about the Feb. solicits being disheartening - nothing about Tynion or Tomasi's solicits would turn me on to the books if I wasn't currently reading them and have way too much momentum to keep getting them. Hopefully March brings some better news (a better idea of what Crisis is and when it'll happen, Bat/Cat, Strange Adventures, maybe a return for Dick sometime soon, etc.).
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  12. #1617
    Mighty Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    I totally understand, but I only follow the Hickman penned titles i.e. X-Men & New Mutants.

    Back to the topic, I totally forgot about the special; I can imagine it lasting as long as Damian's death.

    Yeah the Bat-Fam have been dying left and right that's why I think Selina would have been good, I would have said Talia but Morrison already did that.

    Unfortunately I think this is how it is going to go for the big TWO superheroes with character deaths for the sales spikes. After December the only Bat books I will be reading is Batman Curse of the White Knight and Bat/Cat and 3 Jokers (when they comes out).

    I am just not feeling the new creative teams, I love Tomasi, but for me his Batman thesis was already told in Batman & Robin and Tynion is good but not enough for me to follow him from title to title.
    I don't think killing Selina is a good idea. She has developed a breath of new air thank to her importance in Batman since Rebirth started and DC should really focus in making the best decisions concerning their females IP. Besides, using a female character's death to motivate a male character isn't well received in many circles nowadays and I think the whole method of using death to elevate the stakes has burned out when it comes to the Bat-line, as the examples listed before show, among others that can be named. At least with Alfred, I think some doors can be opened if DC stand firms and doesn't bring him back

    I agree with your take on Tomasi. I'm a fan of most of his Batman & Robin run and the run he did with Gleason in Superman, but I just couldn't get into his Tec run
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  13. #1618
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    I don't think killing Selina is a good idea. She has developed a breath of new air thank to her importance in Batman since Rebirth started and DC should really focus in making the best decisions concerning their females IP. Besides, using a female character's death to motivate a male character isn't well received in many circles nowadays and I think the whole method of using death to elevate the stakes has burned out when it comes to the Bat-line, as the examples listed before show, among others that can be named. At least with Alfred, I think some doors can be opened if DC stand firms and doesn't bring him back

    I agree with your take on Tomasi. I'm a fan of most of his Batman & Robin run and the run he did with Gleason in Superman, but I just couldn't get into his Tec run

    Shows my naïveté, I totally put "fridging" out of my mind. You’re totally right, it would be cliche and trite.

    If Bat/Cat is elseworld I would be so happy because King could actually tell his story with out editorial meddling

  14. #1619
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    King has shown himself both in the past and fairly recently to be pretty candid regarding changes and decisions for his story, so regarding stuff like "Alfred was supposed to be a fakeout" and "Bat/Cat will be Elseworlds", I'd say just wait for him to respond with an answer, because you know at some point he will.

    Just based on my own perspective, I feel like the former is possible to be true, just based on us knowing alot of the story did end up getting rewritten and it doesn't look as setup as it probably should've been. I also feel like Bat/Cat is gonna be "in continuity if we feel like it", just like Doomsday Clock's basically been, or really any of the other Bat books relative to each other. They'll be in their own bubble doing their own things, but if there's an element another writer wants to borrow from they will. Like say, if the Phantasm return is received very well, they may want to bring her in and start using her more and other books, thus emphasizing the books "canon-ness".

    At this point, just easier to wait and see for more information.

  15. #1620
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    I am just not feeling the new creative teams, I love Tomasi, but for me his Batman thesis was already told in Batman & Robin and Tynion is good but not enough for me to follow him from title to title.
    I feel exactly the same way. The Tomasi that's writing Detective lately could learn a lot from the Tomasi that wrote Batman and Robin. I've been so disappointed in his recent run on 'Tec.

    I like Tynion fine and I'd said he'd be an okay replacement because I dug his Detective/Bat-family stuff. (Priest was my top choice.) But I've gotten the idea that Tynion is really there to apply a very recent "DC style" (the Snyder/Tynion style that Didio seems enamored of lately) to Batman as a sort of correction for King's great run. I liked Tynion's 'Tec so much better than the stuff he's done under Snyder's tutelage. I find Snyder to be a great idea man with very poor follow-through. The last 5-8 issues of Justice League have mostly been introducing one surprise group of characters after another but never actually doing anything with them. If Snyder's Batman is the model Tynion's meant to follow, I don't expect to stick with that run very long. I'm actually thinking of taking my first real break from DC (the only comics I read for the most part) since the 90s.

    So much excitement awaits on December 18 with the finales of King's Batman, Doomsday Clock, Doom War and other stuff and so little excitement (seemingly at least) in the new year.

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