King Batman Run: Analysis and Enjoyment Thread

[Pohzee]

I actually like the idea that Bane orchestrated the terrorist attack and Holly's revenge, because Batman feels "off" to me in the first arc, and that goes a long way to explaining it for me.

I do hope that it doesn't go back to War of Jokes and Riddles, though. That's too far.

It would certainly go a ways to explaining quirks from the start of the run, but I will hold out to see Bane's motivations before I decide. Because before he seemed to have a sympathetic motivation and it was interesting that Batman's unprovoked aggression cast him in a less than heroic light and brought consequences upon himself in a way.

It would be interesting for Batman's undoing to be a consequence of his own aggression. For Bane's actions to be a retaliation in check of Batman's actions rather than his own premeditated act of aggression out of pure malevolence.

Otherwise it seems a bit silly for his plan to call for him returning to his dependency on Venom and having the sovereignty of his nation invaded. With the level of subtlety that the rest of this plan seems to involve, there would be no need to involve himself directly. The subliminal priming did not need to happen at Santa Prisca.

[millernumber1]

It would certainly go a ways to explaining quirks from the start of the run, but I will hold out to see Bane's motivations before I decide. Because before he seemed to have a sympathetic motivation and it was interesting that Batman's unprovoked aggression cast him in a less than heroic light and brought consequences upon himself in a way.

It would be interesting for Batman's undoing to be a consequence of his own aggression. For Bane's actions to be a retaliation in check of Batman's actions rather than his own premeditated act of aggression out of pure malevolence.

Agreed. I liked the idea of Batman being in the wrong with Bane in "I Am Bane." But I think that there's a pleasure in seeing a bigger plan now. And it's possible that this was a contingency, and he really didn't intend to take it this far unless Bat invaded Santa Prisca.

[themasething]

I'm sorry, but i still think it's hysteria cause you haven't what you wanted.

Let's put this whole thing in a different way: A concert.
DC is the promoter, Batman 50's The Wedding is the event. Batman & Catwoman are the headline act promoted. Your Local Comic Shop is the Venue.

DC tells the venue that they are booking Batman and Catwomen Wedding Tour and the event is coming to their venue. The LCS spends money on pays the electric bills, and cleans the venue as a part of the contract with the promoter (DC). The promoter spends money in conjunction with the venue to advertise to you that you're going to see Batman & Catwoman Wedding Tour live on July 4th. You, the concert goer, pays the ticket fee (Comic Preorder) in advance based on the Wedding Tour happening. The venue gives the ticket fee to the promoter in order to lock in the event as the promoter keeps saying it is happening. The day of the event comes, you're excited to see Batman & Catwoman Wedding Tour, so you goto the venue, pay off your ticket (buy the book) and head inside to find... A iPod with speakers playing Batman songs on one side of the stage and Catwoman on the other side of the stage. This is not the event you paid for, it's not the event that the venue paid the promoter to put on. The promoter has straight out lied to the venue and you about what you were going to get.

At what point is the onus on YOU, the end consumer for the promoter not delivering the event they promised you and the venue, both who paid money for something that is nothing like what you were told you were going to get. Answer is that it is not your fault, nor the venue. The issue is the promoter lied and switched acts at the last minute in order to make more money.

Loosing money? reading a good comic it's never a loss of money.

Tell that to all the struggling Local Comic Stores all over the world right now. They bought and paid, in advance, for huge amounts of Batman #50 based on the promise that the wedding event was happening. DC said with a straight face to every comic book website, retailer and interview that the wedding WAS HAPPENING. Then at the last minute, when it was too late for the retailers to get a refund on the books, they spoilt the plot and are laughing all the way to the bank while the LCS is stuck with dead inventory that they will eventually have to move for less than they paid for since it's now collecting dust on the shelves.

[millernumber1]

Let's put this whole thing in a different way: A concert.
DC is the promoter, Batman 50's The Wedding is the event. Batman & Catwoman are the headline act promoted. Your Local Comic Shop is the Venue.

DC tells the venue that they are booking Batman and Catwomen Wedding Tour and the event is coming to their venue. The LCS spends money on pays the electric bills, and cleans the venue as a part of the contract with the promoter (DC). The promoter spends money in conjunction with the venue to advertise to you that you're going to see Batman & Catwoman Wedding Tour live on July 4th. You, the concert goer, pays the ticket fee (Comic Preorder) in advance based on the Wedding Tour happening. The venue gives the ticket fee to the promoter in order to lock in the event as the promoter keeps saying it is happening. The day of the event comes, you're excited to see Batman & Catwoman Wedding Tour, so you goto the venue, pay off your ticket (buy the book) and head inside to find... A iPod with speakers playing Batman songs on one side of the stage and Catwoman on the other side of the stage. This is not the event you paid for, it's not the event that the venue paid the promoter to put on. The promoter has straight out lied to the venue and you about what you were going to get.

At what point is the onus on YOU, the end consumer for the promoter not delivering the event they promised you and the venue, both who paid money for something that is nothing like what you were told you were going to get. Answer is that it is not your fault, nor the venue. The issue is the promoter lied and switched acts at the last minute in order to make more money.

Tell that to all the struggling Local Comic Stores all over the world right now. They bought and paid, in advance, for huge amounts of Batman #50 based on the promise that the wedding event was happening. DC said with a straight face to every comic book website, retailer and interview that the wedding WAS HAPPENING. Then at the last minute, when it was too late for the retailers to get a refund on the books, they spoilt the plot and are laughing all the way to the bank while the LCS is stuck with dead inventory that they will eventually have to move for less than they paid for since it's now collecting dust on the shelves.

I don't think you're wrong for being disappointed. I am myself, because I don't think we're going to get "a Batman you've never seen", and I think it's the artistically easier choice, which frustrates me, since I think King can write the hard stuff.

However, I think the sense of betrayal is being overdone, at least in terms of being directed at King and the book we got. I think being mad at DC for spoiling and hyping in a deceptive manner is perfectly acceptable (and merited, though I'd also point out it's nothing different from the last seven years of marketing starting with the n52).

My understanding of LCS's reactions to this is that it's hitting them in about 10% of their pull lists. I don't know if it's gaining new pulls. That's not good, certainly. But I don't think it's the case that DC told retailers that they were getting a wedding. My LCS definitely didn't think it was happening (and were kind of jerks about it to my hopeful little sentimental face). Several other LCS I talked to were completely unsurprised as well. The problem was the hype plus the spoiler, not the book. Even the angriest LCS owner/manager I've found so far thinks the book itself is pretty great.

[failo.legendkiller]

Let's put this whole thing in a different way: A concert.
DC is the promoter, Batman 50's The Wedding is the event. Batman & Catwoman are the headline act promoted. Your Local Comic Shop is the Venue.

DC tells the venue that they are booking Batman and Catwomen Wedding Tour and the event is coming to their venue. The LCS spends money on pays the electric bills, and cleans the venue as a part of the contract with the promoter (DC). The promoter spends money in conjunction with the venue to advertise to you that you're going to see Batman & Catwoman Wedding Tour live on July 4th. You, the concert goer, pays the ticket fee (Comic Preorder) in advance based on the Wedding Tour happening. The venue gives the ticket fee to the promoter in order to lock in the event as the promoter keeps saying it is happening. The day of the event comes, you're excited to see Batman & Catwoman Wedding Tour, so you goto the venue, pay off your ticket (buy the book) and head inside to find... A iPod with speakers playing Batman songs on one side of the stage and Catwoman on the other side of the stage. This is not the event you paid for, it's not the event that the venue paid the promoter to put on. The promoter has straight out lied to the venue and you about what you were going to get.

At what point is the onus on YOU, the end consumer for the promoter not delivering the event they promised you and the venue, both who paid money for something that is nothing like what you were told you were going to get. Answer is that it is not your fault, nor the venue. The issue is the promoter lied and switched acts at the last minute in order to make more money.



Tell that to all the struggling Local Comic Stores all over the world right now. They bought and paid, in advance, for huge amounts of Batman #50 based on the promise that the wedding event was happening. DC said with a straight face to every comic book website, retailer and interview that the wedding WAS HAPPENING. Then at the last minute, when it was too late for the retailers to get a refund on the books, they spoilt the plot and are laughing all the way to the bank while the LCS is stuck with dead inventory that they will eventually have to move for less than they paid for since it's now collecting dust on the shelves.

I'm sorry but I don't have your point of view.
They can't tell us in advance that marriage wouldn't be celebrated as no promo will ever spoil the finale of a movie.
I still think that, whoever was a little inside comics world, knew that something was coming.

I have to repeat, my first post was addressed to our community, expert comics people who read comic books regularly. These people should have the ability to recognize when a product is of quality or not.
And, if they are screaming cause we hadn't a marriage, it's only hysteria.
If you want argue about quality, then it's another can of worms.

[JBatmanFan05]

Part of me thinks King might be going a little meta with Bane's involvement...perhaps trying to suggest Knightfall had this lasting effect on Batman, where he was pushed to the limit and forced to even more drive himself more on misery.

And misery Batman regularly got after KFall with Contagion/Legacy and NML and etc, Hush, etc.

[millernumber1]

Part of me thinks King might be going a little meta with Bane's involvement...perhaps trying to suggest Knightfall had this lasting effect on Batman, where he was pushed to the limit and forced to even more drive himself more on misery.

Interesting. Neither Dixon nor Moench really focused on Batman's deeper motivations, that I remember (though I have to admit, my primary experience of Knightfall is still the radio drama, though I've read volumes 1 and 2 of the old collections). Were there any specific issues where Batman had some monologues reflecting on his motives for being Batman during that time?

[kilderkin]

Let's put this whole thing in a different way: A concert.
DC is the promoter, Batman 50's The Wedding is the event. Batman & Catwoman are the headline act promoted. Your Local Comic Shop is the Venue.

DC tells the venue that they are booking Batman and Catwomen Wedding Tour and the event is coming to their venue. The LCS spends money on pays the electric bills, and cleans the venue as a part of the contract with the promoter (DC). The promoter spends money in conjunction with the venue to advertise to you that you're going to see Batman & Catwoman Wedding Tour live on July 4th. You, the concert goer, pays the ticket fee (Comic Preorder) in advance based on the Wedding Tour happening. The venue gives the ticket fee to the promoter in order to lock in the event as the promoter keeps saying it is happening. The day of the event comes, you're excited to see Batman & Catwoman Wedding Tour, so you goto the venue, pay off your ticket (buy the book) and head inside to find... A iPod with speakers playing Batman songs on one side of the stage and Catwoman on the other side of the stage. This is not the event you paid for, it's not the event that the venue paid the promoter to put on. The promoter has straight out lied to the venue and you about what you were going to get.

At what point is the onus on YOU, the end consumer for the promoter not delivering the event they promised you and the venue, both who paid money for something that is nothing like what you were told you were going to get. Answer is that it is not your fault, nor the venue. The issue is the promoter lied and switched acts at the last minute in order to make more money.



Tell that to all the struggling Local Comic Stores all over the world right now. They bought and paid, in advance, for huge amounts of Batman #50 based on the promise that the wedding event was happening. DC said with a straight face to every comic book website, retailer and interview that the wedding WAS HAPPENING. Then at the last minute, when it was too late for the retailers to get a refund on the books, they spoilt the plot and are laughing all the way to the bank while the LCS is stuck with dead inventory that they will eventually have to move for less than they paid for since it's now collecting dust on the shelves.

This post imo is absolutely brilliant

and I do feel betrayed by the hype, promotion and lack of pay off

The hype promised something I was not going to get by design

effectively I was lied to to sell a book which didn't provide what was promoted

I am unashamedly angry at dc for this

[Myskin]

Let's put this whole thing in a different way: A concert.
DC is the promoter, Batman 50's The Wedding is the event. Batman & Catwoman are the headline act promoted. Your Local Comic Shop is the Venue.

DC tells the venue that they are booking Batman and Catwomen Wedding Tour and the event is coming to their venue. The LCS spends money on pays the electric bills, and cleans the venue as a part of the contract with the promoter (DC). The promoter spends money in conjunction with the venue to advertise to you that you're going to see Batman & Catwoman Wedding Tour live on July 4th. You, the concert goer, pays the ticket fee (Comic Preorder) in advance based on the Wedding Tour happening. The venue gives the ticket fee to the promoter in order to lock in the event as the promoter keeps saying it is happening. The day of the event comes, you're excited to see Batman & Catwoman Wedding Tour, so you goto the venue, pay off your ticket (buy the book) and head inside to find... A iPod with speakers playing Batman songs on one side of the stage and Catwoman on the other side of the stage. This is not the event you paid for, it's not the event that the venue paid the promoter to put on. The promoter has straight out lied to the venue and you about what you were going to get.

Mmmh. No.

It's not the event most people expected, but it's not a low-budget B-movie instead of a blockbuster, either. The art is stellar and the prose is good, and sometimes very good.

[millernumber1]

Mmmh. No.

It's not the event most people expected, but it's not a low-budget B-movie instead of a blockbuster, either. The art is stellar and the prose is good, and sometimes very good.

Agreed. I think there's real craft and intention at work, even if I disagree with where I think it's going/my expectations.

[Scott Taylor]

Mmmh. No.

It's not the event most people expected, but it's not a low-budget B-movie instead of a blockbuster, either. The art is stellar and the prose is good, and sometimes very good.

Yep. As a comic, Batman #50 is absolutely solid, one of the most beautifully crafted works of art I've seen. Especially the part where Alfred become's Bruce's witness - if you didn't like that then you have a heart of stone or maybe you are the Riddler.

[millernumber1]

Yep. As a comic, Batman #50 is absolutely solid, one of the most beautifully crafted works of art I've seen. Especially the part where Alfred become's Bruce's witness - if you didn't like that then you have a heart of stone or maybe you are the Riddler.

That scene, and the rooftop jumping, made me feel so many happy and sad feelings.

[Chubistian]

Anyone else noticed that in the page with Lois & Superman, they’re serious while Batman and Catwoman are smiling? Maybe that was the “something you haven’t seen” King was refering to

I had two nitpicks with the art, first I have a problem with how Mikel Janin draws Holly. I can’t figure exactly why, maybe I find her too similar to his Harley Quinn or just too different compared to how Gerads and Joelle have drawn her previously. The second complain would be with Gerads’ page, while I usually love him, I find the way he draw Bruce Wayne’s feet weird and I couldn’t shake it out of my mind

[Maxpower00044]

Anyone else noticed that in the page with Lois & Superman, they’re serious while Batman and Catwoman are smiling? Maybe that was the “something you haven’t seen” King was refering to

I had two nitpicks with the art, first I have a problem with how Mikel Janin draws Holly. I can’t figure exactly why, maybe I find her too similar to his Harley Quinn or just too different compared to how Gerads and Joelle have drawn her previously. The second complain would be with Gerads’ page, while I usually love him, I find the way he draw Bruce Wayne’s feet weird and I couldn’t shake it out of my mind

Yes. I love Gerads, he’s one of my favorite artists right now, but that foot wasn’t a very good foot. If I were to have another nitpick it would be that one panel of Tim Sale’s page has Batman looking like a deflated blowup doll. Oh, and Finches’ page is just all kinds of terrible. I don’t know how anyone can be a fan of that dude. Oh, oh, and Jorge Jimenez not getting a page is blasphemy. Best ongoing artist at DC right now.

Other than that I thought this was a stellar issue. A lot of touching moments. I’m down with them getting married, or not. Them not getting hitched doesn’t take away my enjoyment of King’s run, and it doesn’t makes me think that all the issues before it are a waste just because they didn’t get married.

[gregpersons]

Part of me thinks King might be going a little meta with Bane's involvement...perhaps trying to suggest Knightfall had this lasting effect on Batman, where he was pushed to the limit and forced to even more drive himself more on misery.

And misery Batman regularly got after KFall with Contagion/Legacy and NML and etc, Hush, etc.

Maybe.

Although, didn't Morrison's run already do this, and better?