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  1. #1471
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Also can't forget Batman v Fudd
    Excellent catch! I would put it with Annual #1-#24 (the proposal), since that's when it came out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    I also think we're going have to wait until #85's release to find out where Tec 1000 fits into place. Because I could see that end up fitting in multiple spots, possibly either at the very end of the run, or even during Knightmares.

    Also adding to the list, Rebirth #1 would be before I Am Gotham obviously. The Elmer Fudd story could probably go right before the Proposal. The DC Nation #0 story right before The Best Man. Secret Files #1 would probably go after Cold Days. And even though he didn't write them, I'd say you could throw in Annual #3 right before The Tyrant Wing and Secret Files #2 right before City Of Bane.

    As for Heroes In Crisis, I don't really consider it a Batman story, which is why I don't think you necessarily need to include it alongside the rest of King's run. The Price is probably could enough since, even though King didn't write it, it's still a Batman story so it fits more into his overall run's narrative. Though that's up to everyone else if they feel like including it or not.

    (And fun side note: If you don't include issues he co-wrote, King has reached his 100 issues goal:
    85 - 5 = 80 + 12 Bat/Cat = 92 + 3 Annuals + Tec 1000 + DC Nation 0 + Secret Files 1 + Elmer Fudd + Weeks special)
    I could see rereading 1000 when it chronologically came out, since my personal theory is that it's post Bat/Cat. But you could also read it as pre-wedding.

    Of course, the whole reading list is going to be purely a guide - anyone can read or not read, participate or not. It just helps those who want to participate to keep somewhat together.

    And as I said, until we have Bat/Cat solicited, I don't want to set anything in stone, since it'd be nice to try to time the discussion to lead straight into Bat/Cat #1.

    And that's a fun note about his goal - I should tweet it at him, though I'm sure he already knows!
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
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  2. #1472
    Mighty Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    I think the order may also depend on how King envisioned certain stories in his run from a thematic standpoint. I don't think Night of the Monster Men nor The Price have anything to do with King's story from a point of view that considers the theme he was dealing with previous to the respective crossovers, though they share a narrative significance (e.g Resolving the plot of Hugo Strange) whereas The Button does have a narrative and thematic meaning.

    I see the Elmer Fudd crossover and Tom King's short story in the first Annual as something not linked to what King was telling in the Batman title at the moment, while Tec #1000 has an importance to the overall theme of King's run (and it placement may also depend in how Bat/Cat ends). Personally, I think I will put the stories outside the main title in-between certain storyarcs where they don't interrupt the flow of the run, though I like the idea of seeing how King's voice for the character and its cast has been changing even in the stories that aren't part of the main storyline.

    I think I will skip the crossovers with other bat titles and The Flash title though. I haven't been a fan of those, same with HiC.
    Last edited by Chubistian; 11-01-2019 at 11:25 AM.
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  3. #1473
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    I imagine stuff like Night of the Monster Men won't generate too much discussion, so including it won't change much about how we discuss it. Obviously, everyone should read what they want - it's more about helping guide when to drop in little comments about The Price, etc. (if you have them) than anything else. I'm updating the google doc I have for this with all the suggestions. I really think this will be fun. With 9 story chunks, we could go weekly through Jan/Feb and hopefully run right into the Weeks special and B/C in Feb or March!

    This is just a guess, but if and when we get King omnibii, I bet the 'Tec story is the last story included in the whole thing.
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  4. #1474
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob/.schoonover View Post
    I imagine stuff like Night of the Monster Men won't generate too much discussion, so including it won't change much about how we discuss it. Obviously, everyone should read what they want - it's more about helping guide when to drop in little comments about The Price, etc. (if you have them) than anything else. I'm updating the google doc I have for this with all the suggestions. I really think this will be fun. With 9 story chunks, we could go weekly through Jan/Feb and hopefully run right into the Weeks special and B/C in Feb or March!

    This is just a guess, but if and when we get King omnibii, I bet the 'Tec story is the last story included in the whole thing.
    If you could post the list once we have the new thread in 2020 it would be great! So we can go an check the storylines anytime without go looking for it in the old thread or contrast how each one is re-reading the run. I agree that the more complete the list is, the better
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  5. #1475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    If you could post the list once we have the new thread in 2020 it would be great! So we can go an check the storylines anytime without go looking for it in the old thread or contrast how each one is re-reading the run. I agree that the more complete the list is, the better
    Yeah, I put it in a Google Doc specifically to reference it in the new year. No way I'd remember what I was thinking two months in the past, plus it's really handy to get suggestions and comments early. I'd completely missed the first Secret Files, so I have plenty of time to track the issue down.
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  6. #1476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    I think the order may also depend on how King envisioned certain stories in his run from a thematic standpoint. I don't think Night of the Monster Men nor The Price have anything to do with King's story from a point of view that considers the theme he was dealing with previous to the respective crossovers, though they share a narrative significance (e.g Resolving the plot of Hugo Strange) whereas The Button does have a narrative and thematic meaning.

    I see the Elmer Fudd crossover and Tom King's short story in the first Annual as something not linked to what King was telling in the Batman title at the moment, while Tec #1000 has an importance to the overall theme of King's run (and it placement may also depend in how Bat/Cat ends). Personally, I think I will put the stories outside the main title in-between certain storyarcs where they don't interrupt the flow of the run, though I like the idea of seeing how King's voice for the character and its cast has been changing even in the stories that aren't part of the main storyline.

    I think I will skip the crossovers with other bat titles and The Flash title though. I haven't been a fan of those, same with HiC.
    That's a great point about Hugo Strange! I sometimes forget about stuff like that since I was much more invested in Detective at the time, and that series actually did a lot to tie in Night of the Monster Men post-event, whereas Batman basically forgot about most of it that wasn't directly connected to Bane.

    I think comments like yours are exactly what we're looking for in our reread - trying to piece together what King has created, and seeing where things fit. I think that for King, at least, the Fudd issues is pretty significant, as it shows up in both Annual #2 and Knightmares...but Knightmares might hint that it's like Arkham Asylum - one of Batman's dreams.

    Quote Originally Posted by bob/.schoonover View Post
    I imagine stuff like Night of the Monster Men won't generate too much discussion, so including it won't change much about how we discuss it. Obviously, everyone should read what they want - it's more about helping guide when to drop in little comments about The Price, etc. (if you have them) than anything else. I'm updating the google doc I have for this with all the suggestions. I really think this will be fun. With 9 story chunks, we could go weekly through Jan/Feb and hopefully run right into the Weeks special and B/C in Feb or March!

    This is just a guess, but if and when we get King omnibii, I bet the 'Tec story is the last story included in the whole thing.
    We shall, of course, see what's going on when the Bat/Cat #1 is solicited - I think no later than March, and quite possibly later still. So that gives us a good long chunk - 9 weeks is probably about right, though we of course will respond to the vagaries of solicitations and news!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    If you could post the list once we have the new thread in 2020 it would be great! So we can go an check the storylines anytime without go looking for it in the old thread or contrast how each one is re-reading the run. I agree that the more complete the list is, the better
    It'll absolutely be in the first post of the new thread, and we'll definitely keep it updated (helpful edit function is helpful!)

    Quote Originally Posted by bob/.schoonover View Post
    Yeah, I put it in a Google Doc specifically to reference it in the new year. No way I'd remember what I was thinking two months in the past, plus it's really handy to get suggestions and comments early. I'd completely missed the first Secret Files, so I have plenty of time to track the issue down.
    Thank you so much for putting all this together!
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews, Stephanie Brown Discord

  7. #1477
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    Oh, also, I did tweet at Tom King about the 100 issues thing, and here's what happened : https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status...23424578682880

    "Isn’t it nice when a plan comes together."
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
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  8. #1478
    Mighty Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    That's a great point about Hugo Strange! I sometimes forget about stuff like that since I was much more invested in Detective at the time, and that series actually did a lot to tie in Night of the Monster Men post-event, whereas Batman basically forgot about most of it that wasn't directly connected to Bane.

    I think comments like yours are exactly what we're looking for in our reread - trying to piece together what King has created, and seeing where things fit. I think that for King, at least, the Fudd issues is pretty significant, as it shows up in both Annual #2 and Knightmares...but Knightmares might hint that it's like Arkham Asylum - one of Batman's dreams.
    Thanks! Interesting point about the Fudd issue, I will have to do a deeper analysis with the Knightmare issue in the re-read. I was also more into Tec than I Am Gotham back then. I liked Tynion's run, though looking back at it, I was more harsh on it that what it deserved when I didn't like certain arcs or details. He did a great job when it comes to character work and I loved his take on Clayface
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  9. #1479
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    Thanks! Interesting point about the Fudd issue, I will have to do a deeper analysis with the Knightmare issue in the re-read. I was also more into Tec than I Am Gotham back then. I liked Tynion's run, though looking back at it, I was more harsh on it that what it deserved when I didn't like certain arcs or details. He did a great job when it comes to character work and I loved his take on Clayface
    I'm glad I supported it back then, even in the darker days of Steph-less angst. Because, to me, 980 was rich reward for me.

    And Clayface...I am so pleased that King honored Tynion's storytelling there.

    It is a fascinating thing to revisit our tastes and takes years later...also, it's really weird that we've been reading Rebirth and King Batman for almost 4 years, and so much has changed.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
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  10. #1480
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I'm glad I supported it back then, even in the darker days of Steph-less angst. Because, to me, 980 was rich reward for me.

    And Clayface...I am so pleased that King honored Tynion's storytelling there.

    It is a fascinating thing to revisit our tastes and takes years later...also, it's really weird that we've been reading Rebirth and King Batman for almost 4 years, and so much has changed.
    4 years! Wow. A really long time. Yes, so much has changed. Personally, the whole manner I approach a story nowadays has changed since Rebirth started, and probably it will have changed once again in some years from now. I'm happy for Tom King, as he seems to be fulfilling the project he started in a similar way to how he envisioned it at the beginning, at least in its longitude, which is a pretty hard feat to pull in mainstream comics, and I would have been pretty dissapointed if we had ended with a half-baked story. I can't talk for every little detail, what changed because of DC and what changed because Tom has changed too with the passing of time. I don't know how the run will end, but at least I know I had a great time reading it, despite its mistakes or problems.

    I have noticed you're a great fan of Stephanie Brown. I don't know much about the character, but I hope she appears more in the future! She seems to be pretty lost nowadays and I wonder if it's because DC is planning something special for her or if they don't know what to do with her (which would be a pity). Every member of the Batfamily seems to have its little corner nowadays, so I don't get why she seems to be forgotten.
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  11. #1481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    4 years! Wow. A really long time. Yes, so much has changed. Personally, the whole manner I approach a story nowadays has changed since Rebirth started, and probably it will have changed once again in some years from now. I'm happy for Tom King, as he seems to be fulfilling the project he started in a similar way to how he envisioned it at the beginning, at least in its longitude, which is a pretty hard feat to pull in mainstream comics, and I would have been pretty dissapointed if we had ended with a half-baked story. I can't talk for every little detail, what changed because of DC and what changed because Tom has changed too with the passing of time. I don't know how the run will end, but at least I know I had a great time reading it, despite its mistakes or problems.

    I have noticed you're a great fan of Stephanie Brown. I don't know much about the character, but I hope she appears more in the future! She seems to be pretty lost nowadays and I wonder if it's because DC is planning something special for her or if they don't know what to do with her (which would be a pity). Every member of the Batfamily seems to have its little corner nowadays, so I don't get why she seems to be forgotten.
    In those 4 years, I've discovered a run of Batman where, for the first time, I care more about Bruce Wayne than the Batfamily in a story (while still adoring the Batfamily intensely). It's been quite a significant four years for me, too! I am very hopeful that Bat/Cat is a true ending for his story in a way that inspires the same kinds of heartbreak and joy and power and tears and laughter that Omega Men and Vision did. I hope that even if the ending frustrates me (as Mister Miracle's ending did), I'll still look back on issues like #32, or Tec 1000, or Knightmares #66, or #9, and shiver with the pleasure, sadness, and appreciation of sheer craft that I did. I think I will, since even after The Wedding, I loved #32.

    Over in the Stephanie Brown Appreciation thread (which is a great place, but then, I would think that ), we found out that the Bat-office does indeed have plans for Steph. I'm hoping that it's in Tynion's run on Batman, but we'll have to wait and see!
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews, Stephanie Brown Discord

  12. #1482
    Mighty Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    In those 4 years, I've discovered a run of Batman where, for the first time, I care more about Bruce Wayne than the Batfamily in a story (while still adoring the Batfamily intensely). It's been quite a significant four years for me, too! I am very hopeful that Bat/Cat is a true ending for his story in a way that inspires the same kinds of heartbreak and joy and power and tears and laughter that Omega Men and Vision did. I hope that even if the ending frustrates me (as Mister Miracle's ending did), I'll still look back on issues like #32, or Tec 1000, or Knightmares #66, or #9, and shiver with the pleasure, sadness, and appreciation of sheer craft that I did. I think I will, since even after The Wedding, I loved #32.

    Over in the Stephanie Brown Appreciation thread (which is a great place, but then, I would think that ), we found out that the Bat-office does indeed have plans for Steph. I'm hoping that it's in Tynion's run on Batman, but we'll have to wait and see!
    Great news for you Steph's fans! I haven't read Omega Men yet! One of the works by King that I've been wanting to get for years alongside Sheriff of Babylon. But that's the thing with comics, there're so many to read out there! But eventually, I will end up getting them! At least I save money in books by borrowing them or renting them from college.
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  13. #1483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    Great news for you Steph's fans! I haven't read Omega Men yet! One of the works by King that I've been wanting to get for years alongside Sheriff of Babylon. But that's the thing with comics, there're so many to read out there! But eventually, I will end up getting them! At least I save money in books by borrowing them or renting them from college.
    100% recommend getting Omega Men, whether digitally, or physically, or from the library in either format!
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews, Stephanie Brown Discord

  14. #1484
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    100% recommend getting Omega Men, whether digitally, or physically, or from the library in either format!
    I will try to get it as a reading to take in this summer (in Chile) vacations, probably during February! I need to read in paper to fully enjoy a comic, I'm old fashioned in that sense haha! Thanks for the recommendation! I recently read again The Vision and it's interesting to see how, even then, King was already using narrative techniques, especially when it comes to dialogue, that he would keep on with in other works, including his actual run in Batman!
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  15. #1485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    I will try to get it as a reading to take in this summer (in Chile) vacations, probably during February! I need to read in paper to fully enjoy a comic, I'm old fashioned in that sense haha! Thanks for the recommendation! I recently read again The Vision and it's interesting to see how, even then, King was already using narrative techniques, especially when it comes to dialogue, that he would keep on with in other works, including his actual run in Batman!
    Something I noticed in the Annual (the Mike Norton section) is something he used to great effect in both Vision and Omega Men - the very carefully structured increase and decrease of panels. In the Annual, he goes from the splash full page panel, to split page, to three, to four, all the way to nine, giving the sense of Batman's days growing more and more into his status quo. I love that effect, though I think it's not the best use King's made of that particular technique (my favorite is in Omega Men, so keep an eye out for that!)
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews, Stephanie Brown Discord

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