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  1. #1081
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    As for something else going on with Bane...we do have the acetate cover in November, with Bane being puppeted by Thomas...!
    Yeah, when I look at that cover, and then when I see the past couple issues of the book, where Thomas has basically been doing everything, while Bane hangs out somewhere underground, and with his dialogue with Lex making him sound really sickly to me, I'm thinking more and more that Thomas really is the mastermind behind all of this, and Bane is just his pawn so he can get what he really wants, over his venom addiction.

    Even going back to #72, that's Thomas who is explaining the plan to Bane (pre-wedding too), and because Bane never once responds at all during it, would it not be a surprise that Thomas may have been fudging or exaggerating some details, or perhaps he's explaining it because it IS his plan? If they are going this way, I'm really all for because its so much more interesting than just pure omniscient Bane. Always love it when you have characters manipulating each other and no one knows who the real puppet master is.
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  2. #1082
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    I could buy the final plan being a mix of whatever Bane’s original one was and whatever Thomas’ real Endgame is supposed to be.

  3. #1083
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    Yeah, when I look at that cover, and then when I see the past couple issues of the book, where Thomas has basically been doing everything, while Bane hangs out somewhere underground, and with his dialogue with Lex making him sound really sickly to me, I'm thinking more and more that Thomas really is the mastermind behind all of this, and Bane is just his pawn so he can get what he really wants, over his venom addiction.

    Even going back to #72, that's Thomas who is explaining the plan to Bane (pre-wedding too), and because Bane never once responds at all during it, would it not be a surprise that Thomas may have been fudging or exaggerating some details, or perhaps he's explaining it because it IS his plan? If they are going this way, I'm really all for because its so much more interesting than just pure omniscient Bane. Always love it when you have characters manipulating each other and no one knows who the real puppet master is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    I could buy the final plan being a mix of whatever Bane’s original one was and whatever Thomas’ real Endgame is supposed to be.
    The one problem I have with that is that King keeps saying the point of his run is Batman Loves Catwoman, and Bane hates Batman. Making Thomas that big of an agent of control in the plan seems a bit off. But I guess we'll see!
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
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  4. #1084
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    The one problem I have with that is that King keeps saying the point of his run is Batman Loves Catwoman, and Bane hates Batman. Making Thomas that big of an agent of control in the plan seems a bit off. But I guess we'll see!
    I think Thomas’ involvement only takes away from the point that “Bane hates Batman” if Thomas is the one pushed Bane to go after Bruce from the very beginning. If Bane always had a plan to go after the Bat and Thomas simply hopped on board a train that was already in motion, I don’t necessarily see it being a problem or taking anything away from that point.

  5. #1085
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    I think Thomas’ involvement only takes away from the point that “Bane hates Batman” if Thomas is the one pushed Bane to go after Bruce from the very beginning. If Bane always had a plan to go after the Bat and Thomas simply hopped on board a train that was already in motion, I don’t necessarily see it being a problem or taking anything away from that point.
    Well, I just hope that the final confrontation is between Bruce and Bane, not Bruce and Thomas. Because I think it should end where it started.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  6. #1086
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    The one problem I have with that is that King keeps saying the point of his run is Batman Loves Catwoman, and Bane hates Batman. Making Thomas that big of an agent of control in the plan seems a bit off. But I guess we'll see!
    He originally said that the point was an exploration of parenthood and the relationships between fathers and sons, and that Selina was an unexpected but exciting addition. But that was back in 2016.

  7. #1087
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Cyclist View Post
    He originally said that the point was an exploration of parenthood and the relationships between fathers and sons, and that Selina was an unexpected but exciting addition. But that was back in 2016.
    By father and son did he mean just Thomas and Bruce or including all the other father and sons in the batfam?

  8. #1088
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    By father and son did he mean just Thomas and Bruce or including all the other father and sons in the batfam?
    Just Bruce and Thomas, although at the time nobody was aware that Thomas was showing up just that King was hellbent on erasing all of the character development that had occurred in the new 52...and since Year One. He explained in a couple interviews that he was basing his Bruce on his father, which is why his Bruce shoved Damian out of his life to develop paternal relationships elsewhere just like Tom's dad did to him.

  9. #1089
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Cyclist View Post
    Just Bruce and Thomas, although at the time nobody was aware that Thomas was showing up just that King was hellbent on erasing all of the character development that had occurred in the new 52...and since Year One. He explained in a couple of interviews that he was basing his Bruce on his father, which is why his Bruce shoved Damian out of his life to develop paternal relationships elsewhere just like Tom's dad did to him.
    Oh, that's juicy. I need a link.

  10. #1090
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Cyclist View Post
    Just Bruce and Thomas, although at the time nobody was aware that Thomas was showing up just that King was hellbent on erasing all of the character development that had occurred in the new 52...and since Year One. He explained in a couple interviews that he was basing his Bruce on his father, which is why his Bruce shoved Damian out of his life to develop paternal relationships elsewhere just like Tom's dad did to him.
    I think that's really pushing it. You may not like how King sees Batman's character development, but saying he's "hellbent on erasing" is extremely negative and subjective. King's not the first and won't be the last to have Batman ignore or mistreat his family.

    I think Batman, to King, is likely partly his dad, but is also clearly himself, as he's based a lot of Selina on his wife.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  11. #1091
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    I wonder how "messy" the final showdown will be. Gotham Girl, Bane, and Thomas all need to be neutralized in some manner - while it's possible Bruce and Selina take them out one after the next, I think it's more likely we'll see something more complicated. I Am Suicide had a complicated climax with Selina, Bane, Bruce and the rest revealing the double cross; The War of Jokes and Riddles was a three-way melee; even I Am Gotham was a bit complicated with the JLA then Gotham Girl coming in.

    At a guess, I think we'll see Gotham Girl end up integral to Bruce's plan one way or the other - turning her, helping defeat the various be-spelled villains, maybe even helping Bruce fake his death to neutralize his father?
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  12. #1092
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I think that's really pushing it. You may not like how King sees Batman's character development, but saying he's "hellbent on erasing" is extremely negative and subjective. King's not the first and won't be the last to have Batman ignore or mistreat his family.

    I think Batman, to King, is likely partly his dad, but is also clearly himself, as he's based a lot of Selina on his wife.
    Ooh. I want a link for that one too

  13. #1093
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Ooh. I want a link for that one too
    I want to clarify that I think saying "X character is based on Y in real life" is way too simplistic. I think King puts it well here: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/artic...k/1100-156478/ when he says "That's my everyday life. That's the thing that I most care about--family and when you write, no matter what you do, you can try to escape it, but the thing you most care about--the thing that hits your soul the hardest--will always be in your work. So if you always look at my work, there's always some guy who's madly in love with his wife because I'm madly [in love] with my wife, and there's some guy who's always scared of what's going to happen to his kids because I'm scared of what's going to happen to my kids. And there's always some guy whose kind of been a little broken down by either being in a bunch of wars or a childhood because I'm a little broken because of being in a bunch of wars and my childhood, so all that stuff just leaks in too."

    So it's not that Thomas or Bruce ARE Tom King's father, or Martha IS Tom King's mother, or Selina IS his wife - it's that he takes elements of all of the people he knows and loves in real life, and mashes them together in his own mind, and they come out because those are the things that concern him most.

    In this interview about Batman's proposal, he relates it to his own proposal: https://www.player.one/batman-32-33-...atwoman-120935

    But it's clear that he didn't base the proposal on his own proposal - he just knows those feelings from his own situation, and puts that emotion, but not the exact circumstances or the exact personalities, into all of his work.

    Hope that makes sense.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  14. #1094
    mutant and proud ermac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    That's my everyday life. That's the thing that I most care about--family and when you write, no matter what you do, you can try to escape it, but the thing you most care about--the thing that hits your soul the hardest--will always be in your work. So if you always look at my work, there's always some guy who's madly in love with his wife because I'm madly [in love] with my wife, and there's some guy who's always scared of what's going to happen to his kids because I'm scared of what's going to happen to my kids. And there's always some guy whose kind of been a little broken down by either being in a bunch of wars or a childhood because I'm a little broken because of being in a bunch of wars and my childhood, so all that stuff just leaks in too.".
    Wow. That's... wow. Love that quote.
    I'm reading: Batman - Daredevil - East of West - Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman - House of X / Powers of Ten - Immortal Hulk - Runaways

  15. #1095
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Has there been any indication of the scene in Gotham during City of Bane appearing not in the proper order ? Or any clarification by King or Daniel concerning Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum ?

    The two of them served Bane in Arkham during issue 75 but were on the run in the following. However, it could be artistic mistake or simply non-sequential events (after all, beyond the Batman/Catwoman sections, there is nothing to indicate that the Gotham sections have happened chronologically).

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