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  1. #346
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    I think that's correct and I guess it's a slippery slope of whether emotional manipulation is a form of mind control as inducing intense feelings may make a person act in a manner they might not otherwise. So, part of me says that it is mind control, considering how people may act out of character thanks to intense feelings of anxiety, fear, love, etc.

    This kind of wades into similar territory as Identity Crisis and Zatanna's mind wipe of Selina and how that made her question her disposition of villain to anti-hero and her feelings toward Batman.

    If Psycho Pirate is involved (and King is saying he is) this might bring up Bruce and Selina having to reexamine if their actual (versus manipulated) feelings for one another and if they truly love one another. It could get even more messy if only one of them (Batman or Catwoman) was manipulated by Psycho Pirate and the other was simply reacting with their true feelings.

    A few different paths that this could take that would but both characters through the wringer of romance before this story is over. I live for the drama and emotional messiness and the "what ifs" of this story and this couple. (But, I'm rooting for them all the way.)
    I'm not a huge fan of mind control stories, because of this very issue, but I think King's definitely playing with that idea with some, if not all of the characters involved!

    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    At this point Booster Gold would probably be happy to be a spokesperson for it. Haha...
    I don't know much about Booster other than 52, honestly, but the Booster from the first half of that series would definitely be up for it!

    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    My take is he's (King's) playing the long game (obviously) in the Batman versus Bane and Batman and Catwoman overarching storylines to his entire run. There's just a lot we don't know yet, in terms of what Bane defines as "breaking the Bat" and how he apparently considers him broken (again), more so emotionally this time over physically and emotionally in Bane's first-ever throw down with the Bat way back when.

    I'm trying to consider all the misdirection that Bane could have been doing during his early part in the run and when exactly he decided to instigate this plan. And honestly, how he might have been manipulated...or manipulated himself. I know King said it's all about Bane, but I'm also considering that just because he's sitting on the throne at the end of #50 doesn't mean he put himself there. Could he be being manipulated as well? Just something that popped into my head - not sure if I'm going to take it as a serious option or take on the situation yet, besides being my own wild creativity.

    Lots of layers to my way of thinking and that their first confrontation in this run was, yes psychological, but also directly confrontation and physical. After that it's been all emotional and psychological manipulation from a distance with many tools and participants. (Gives me a little bit of a Black Glove vibe.)

    To me that sets up their next encounters very differently from their first encounters with a different aspect of how that damage he's caused will play out, based on where the characters are now and what may or may not have happened to them while being manipulated.
    Well, we know that Bane ordered Psycho Pirate to manipulate him so he didn't need Venom anymore. So we'll have to see if Psycho Pirate played Bane as well for his own purposes. I think that would be pretty nifty - though Psycho Pirate is kind of a blank slate in terms of his personality and motivations right now in King's run.

    I honestly prefer the way King's going to the way Morrison's going. There's a sense of reality and sympathy in Bane's plans, that I never got in Simon Hurt and the Black Glove. But that could be because Morrison leaned much more heavily on mind control/supernatural/drug manipulation than King is so far.

    I'm really curious to see when Batman or Catwoman will realize what's going on with Bane. King mentioned Daredevil: Born Again, the perfect moment where Matt says, "Perfect crime. You shouldn't have signed it." I really hope we get a moment like that, where Bane overplays his hand, and Batman realizes that Bane's signing his work. Maybe that's part of the upcoming KGBeast arc?
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  2. #347
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I'm not a huge fan of mind control stories, because of this very issue, but I think King's definitely playing with that idea with some, if not all of the characters involved!



    I don't know much about Booster other than 52, honestly, but the Booster from the first half of that series would definitely be up for it!



    Well, we know that Bane ordered Psycho Pirate to manipulate him so he didn't need Venom anymore. So we'll have to see if Psycho Pirate played Bane as well for his own purposes. I think that would be pretty nifty - though Psycho Pirate is kind of a blank slate in terms of his personality and motivations right now in King's run.

    I honestly prefer the way King's going to the way Morrison's going. There's a sense of reality and sympathy in Bane's plans, that I never got in Simon Hurt and the Black Glove. But that could be because Morrison leaned much more heavily on mind control/supernatural/drug manipulation than King is so far.

    I'm really curious to see when Batman or Catwoman will realize what's going on with Bane. King mentioned Daredevil: Born Again, the perfect moment where Matt says, "Perfect crime. You shouldn't have signed it." I really hope we get a moment like that, where Bane overplays his hand, and Batman realizes that Bane's signing his work. Maybe that's part of the upcoming KGBeast arc?
    The mind control bit doesn't bother me too much as a superhero device if it's an extra "nudge" that intensifies a direction a character might have leaned toward already.

    Agreed about Psycho Pirate being blank slate-ish - he's not been a compelling Batman villain in the past. So, I'm not sure what his long game would be to playing Bane and Batman via Bane. It's kind of an empath for me to go down, but I like to throw out all my ideas and impulses (even the bad ones) on my whiteboard of motivations and character connections when trying to play detective.

    Agreed on King's handling and your assessment of Bane versus Morrison's of Doctor Hurt - if any comparisons hand be made between the Cabal of Heartache and the Black Glove. The use of Psycho Pirate's powers are turning Bane a little inside out as well as Batman. It makes for an interesting parallel and juxtaposition. Is Bane or Batman becoming more whole as being through the use of Psycho Pirate's influence or less? <rhetorical> I guess we'll find out.

    Regarding Batman and Catwoman figuring it out - SO AM I. So much to explore there and for them to come back stronger than ever against their foes. "That which does not kill us, makes us stronger" and all that.

    It's got to be a pivotal scene when Batman figures out or gets and inkling of what's going on. At least I hope King plays it that way, if for no other reason than my reading satisfaction. But, he may be wily and start having Batman play along and we won't know it until he provides his masterstroke to bring down the villains.

    Regardless, some fun times ahead for reading the series and trying to figure out who is playing who and what Batman knows and doesn't know.

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