King Batman Run: Analysis and Enjoyment Thread

[millernumber1]

WOW. City of Bane is off to an EPIC start.

Agreed. I know most of the focus will go to Bane, but the Catwoman reunion was really powerful, and I love the way it tied pieces from the 2nd Annual and the boat/street together.

[K. Jones]

Sounds like the Batman book post 85 will have a fair amount of tie-in issues to whatever those events are.

So ... either Three Jokers or whatever the METAL 2 ends up being, one would think? If it's Three Jokers tie-ins I guess we might see Tomasi write the chapters meant to be companions to Geoff Johns, but if it's Metal 2 I guess the smart money would be on Tynion writing those tie-ins. None of that sounds bad, in spite of the title split meaning King has to finish his story in a limited.

[millernumber1]

So, I've seen a bunch of cool details in this issue on other forums.

Joker and Riddler have stolen Detective's Santiago and Peralta's desks, from Brooklyn 99.

Tom King's goofy cover art graces the wall of the GCPD.

Batman spends this issue ascending, after so many issues playing with the idea of falling after #50.

What do other fans of the run think? Where are we going from here? What questions do you want answered?

I think Ventriloquist, because he's immune to Psycho Pirate, will be key to Batman's victory (and he was part of Batman's "suicide squad" in "I Am Suicide").

Is Thomas under Psycho Pirate's influence? Are all of the villains?

[Inversed]

What do other fans of the run think? Where are we going from here? What questions do you want answered?

I think Ventriloquist, because he's immune to Psycho Pirate, will be key to Batman's victory (and he was part of Batman's "suicide squad" in "I Am Suicide").

Is Thomas under Psycho Pirate's influence? Are all of the villains?

I am curious about what happened at the end of #74, since they made a big deal about only one coming out of the hole and of course they're both out. Obviously we know City Of Bane occurs after some kind of a time jump, for Bane to establish his rule and Bruce to get into the mountains, and I know we'll most likely get that answer of how exactly he took over eventually so we could find out then. (Also its probably worth remembering #74 was fairly heavily re-written last minute, so makes sense why it doesn't complete connect to #75, at least not right away)

I think what we're going for is Batman and Catwoman are gonna realize they can't simply waltz through Gotham and fight everyone like they have with nearly every other threat, and instead look to "Out Bane Bane", which I could see as them manipulating events and removing resources of his, until he's all alone and directly leading to his own self-destruction.

Especially after that scene of Scarface's inner monologue screaming at Ventriloquist, it's clear something big is gonna go on with him.

He mentioned that Joker and Riddler are under the Psycho Pirate's control, so if they are I assume the rest are as well. Thomas I think is a special case, since we do know he went to work with him on his own accord. That said, now that his goal of reuniting his family fell apart, its very possible he may not want to work with him again and Bane used PP to put him under the spell. Or he could just easily still be helping him just to spite Bruce anyway.

[BatmanJones]

There's a pretty interesting theory posited by Rich Johnston at bleedingcool.com about King's Batman, Doomsday Clock, Three Jokers and more being signs of a new "Crisis." You can read it here. Beware of those 'spoilers' that come from theories that might turn out to be somewhat true, though this is not a rumor leaked to Rich like some of the posts he makes...

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/07...popular_mobile

[millernumber1]

I am curious about what happened at the end of #74, since they made a big deal about only one coming out of the hole and of course they're both out. Obviously we know City Of Bane occurs after some kind of a time jump, for Bane to establish his rule and Bruce to get into the mountains, and I know we'll most likely get that answer of how exactly he took over eventually so we could find out then. (Also its probably worth remembering #74 was fairly heavily re-written last minute, so makes sense why it doesn't complete connect to #75, at least not right away)

I think what we're going for is Batman and Catwoman are gonna realize they can't simply waltz through Gotham and fight everyone like they have with nearly every other threat, and instead look to "Out Bane Bane", which I could see as them manipulating events and removing resources of his, until he's all alone and directly leading to his own self-destruction.

Especially after that scene of Scarface's inner monologue screaming at Ventriloquist, it's clear something big is gonna go on with him.

He mentioned that Joker and Riddler are under the Psycho Pirate's control, so if they are I assume the rest are as well. Thomas I think is a special case, since we do know he went to work with him on his own accord. That said, now that his goal of reuniting his family fell apart, its very possible he may not want to work with him again and Bane used PP to put him under the spell. Or he could just easily still be helping him just to spite Bruce anyway.

I mean, I think the beautiful thing about the way King is using Thomas and Bruce is that they are both Batman, they both fall to get up - but what they do when they get up is what sets them apart. So both of them got out of the pit - we knew that was going to happen. The image is a dual image - it's both of them getting out.

Your idea of Batman forming his own master plan over the next year - or even having started forming his own plan already - is what I'd also hope for and expect.

There's a pretty interesting theory posited by Rich Johnston at bleedingcool.com about King's Batman, Doomsday Clock, Three Jokers and more being signs of a new "Crisis." You can read it here. Beware of those 'spoilers' that come from theories that might turn out to be somewhat true, though this is not a rumor leaked to Rich like some of the posts he makes...

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/07...popular_mobile

I don't click on BC out of principle, but I have been theorizing that the end of King's run will be the point that DC chooses to either reboot or relaunch. I dunno if they'll choose to make it a Crisis, or what, but sales are too soft for them not to do some kind of marketing push.

[BatmanJones]

I don't click on BC out of principle, but I have been theorizing that the end of King's run will be the point that DC chooses to either reboot or relaunch. I dunno if they'll choose to make it a Crisis, or what, but sales are too soft for them not to do some kind of marketing push.

I hear you and I don't like the spoilers on there at all but the theory in the link is really well reasoned and much more detailed than I can summarize. And it comments on several issues/concepts throughout King's run. If you're willing to make an exception I'd be super interested to know your thoughts. PM me if you'd like me to copy/paste the article and PM it back to you. That way you could avoid giving them clicks.

[Mr. White]

Y'know I see some posts here and wonder if the poster and I read the same book (Won't mention any names)...

I'm sorry, as a stand alone issue, this book left me thinking "what he heck did I just read?"

While I appreciate and the for the most part enjoy non-linear story telling this issue did not do it for me. At all.

Yeah I like cerebral books (e.g. Hickman, Secret Warriors and Remender, Black Science) and long payoffs (e.g. Rucka, Lazarus)...King's Batman run is more nay than yay.

Would my opinion on this issue and the entire run change when it's finished? Guess we wait and see.

NB: Guess it's safe to say the hand at the end of #74 is FlashBat 'cause if it aint, just when the heck is all this meant to be taking place? Someone had commented that this should have been a part of the Knightmare arc. I totally concur...

[Arsenal]

Why would this be part of the Knightmare arc?

[millernumber1]

So, I'm pretty sure we can't setup an Appreciation thread for King's Batman run, but I'd like to try to get a conversation thread for fans who are generally enjoying the run. Obviously, we can't enforce Appreciation thread rules, but I would counsel that if a wholly negative post is entered into the thread, that instead of getting derailed, the conversation just part around it and continue to discuss the things we think are interesting and enjoyable.

I would like to request again, since it has been a while, that posters remember the point of this thread: enjoyment of the run. If you aren't enjoying it at all, and just want to come criticize or vent frustration, there are weekly threads for each issue. There have been several "I hate this run/issue/King" posts recently, and that is not the purpose of the thread.

As I said in the OP of the thread, I don't want to get into a back and forth about disliking the run as a whole, but I would request again that if you have no enjoyment of the run at all that this not be the thread you choose to vent in.

[Mr. White]

Why would this be part of the Knightmare arc?

Guess because it resembles a nightmare.
Plus how we arrived at this point without explanation fits those scenarios.
The "randomness" of it.

[millernumber1]

Guess because it resembles a nightmare.
Plus how we arrived at this point without explanation fits those scenarios.
The "randomness" of it.

It is a nightmare - an evil version of reality. But I really don't understand all the "it doesn't make sense" "there are too many questions" "there is no explanation" comments. I feel like I understand exactly why we got here, and it makes pretty solid sense to me. I have maybe one or two questions left, but my big one is - how will Batman and Catwoman heal their relationship, and how will they beat Bane?

[millernumber1]

Im a big fan of Gotham Girl's new design! hope she sticks around

Agreed! She'll never be my favorite Robin (that is, obviously, Steph), but I think she's a fun look at an upside down version of what Robin should be.

[Korath]

It is a nightmare - an evil version of reality. But I really don't understand all the "it doesn't make sense" "there are too many questions" "there is no explanation" comments. I feel like I understand exactly why we got here, and it makes pretty solid sense to me. I have maybe one or two questions left, but my big one is - how will Batman and Catwoman heal their relationship, and how will they beat Bane?

That's because King doesn't build the story to explain why we are here. We just have to accept that what happened happened, but we never see it.

To quote Joshua McDonald from Batman-News :

This is actually happening. This is Tom King’s weird reimagining of “No Man’s Land,” and I don’t find it nearly as engaging or intriguing – probably because there’s no actual setup or exploration of this world. In fact, that is the key. “No Man’s Land” is one of my favorite Batman stories because it took the time and effort to set up the story in a realistic way for the universe. Here, King pompously expects you to just accept that this is the status quo.

While the issue implies that Bane used Psycho Pirate to manipulate people to create the current status quo, it would’ve been nice to actually experience it. I would’ve enjoyed watching Bane slowly turn the tides against Batman. I would’ve enjoyed watching Bane recruit key individuals before manipulating or brainwashing everyone else. I would’ve enjoyed watching Bane enact most of his plan to slowly dismantle and break Batman. That would have made King’s run interesting. That what have given validity to King’s “just wait” commentary. But King couldn’t be bothered to actually work a story, and now King is expecting a reaction and praise that he hasn’t earned. He’s merely yelling, “It’s all connected! Bane did it all.” as if he’s a glorious mastermind… Sadly, his execution is so half-assed that his work is proving him to be anything but.

Seriously though, there’s a ton of validity in asking, “How did we get here?” Yes, I know Bane used Psycho Pirate, but how? How did we shift from a city with a relatively strong structure and heroes, to this? How, exactly did Bane take over? How did the GCPD fall? Where are the other heroes? Why hasn’t the Justice League involving themselves? How does the outside world not seem to understand this is taking place? And how did Bane court all of these villains? Answers to these questions, even if crazy, would be interesting and are critical to the story as a whole… I mean, yeah, there’s a throw-away line about Gotham Girl keeping people out of Gotham, but are we really supposed to believe she can stop everyone? No. I don’t buy it at all.

Speaking of Gotham Girl, she makes up for the worst pages of this issue. During a confrontation with Solomon Grundy and Amygdala, King feels the need to inflect himself onto the character. We get an overabundance of King’s “humor” and awkwardness. It’s just another example in a long string of King altering characters so he can project himself instead. He has literally made this the “Tom King show,” and it’s insulting to the legacy of these characters. It also comes across as being very pompous and arrogant.

And then, finally, there’s the hooded man climbing up a mountainside throughout the issue. It’s quite clear that this is Bruce, so the reveal felt wasted. Also, the fact that a nobody would be able to slit his throat… I don’t buy into that. And then things take a turn for the worse when Catwoman shows up and King reverts back to the whole, “It was on a boat.” “It was in an alley.” nonsense. I can’t tell you how tired I am of reading this exchange between these to. Enough is enough already.

[Scott Taylor]

I leave on vacation for a week and come back to two back to back issues of Batman waiting for me. Awesome!

They were so different in tone from each other. Overall, they showed me that Batman was not broken after all by the loss of Catwoman. A little bent, yes, but not broken. It was important to establish that before he was actually re-united with her. Moving on to #75, him going to meet her means that he sees her role as vital to ultimately getting the victory over Bane.

Very excited about what is to come. Some of King's best stories have involved team-ups between Cat and Bat.

Josh McDonald obviously needs to take up another hobby, and not reading books he doesn't like.