King Batman Run: Analysis and Enjoyment Thread

[millernumber1]

Unfortunately, I think King lost his game somewhere during that run. The build up was incredible but the payoff is leaving me lukewarm. I wish there wasn't a Thomas Wayne in that story and I didn't felt the resolution of the whole Bat-Cat was enough.

And no, Gotham was never Catwoman's. She is being extremely overated as of now.

Interesting that you're not enjoying Thomas's part in the story. I really like the parallels between Bruce and Thomas, and the relationship we started to see in Beasts of Burden.

Bat/Cat isn't resolved, though - that's kinda the point of doing a 12 issue series to wrap that up.

I think Catwoman has never had the same connection to Gotham City as Bruce, but I think she's often made it her mission to make it better - Valentine's run was all about that, and Brubaker's run started with that idea for her little space in Gotham.

I think there was a larger plan afoot with Thomas Wayne especially after Rebirth, but with the delays with Doomsday Clock things went awry; so King is left holding the bag.

Interesting. I know Thomas was re-introduced in The Button, but I've never thought he was going to be a bit part of Doomsday Clock, since he's such a huge thematic element of King's run.

[charliehustle415]

Interesting that you're not enjoying Thomas's part in the story. I really like the parallels between Bruce and Thomas, and the relationship we started to see in Beasts of Burden.

Bat/Cat isn't resolved, though - that's kinda the point of doing a 12 issue series to wrap that up.

I think Catwoman has never had the same connection to Gotham City as Bruce, but I think she's often made it her mission to make it better - Valentine's run was all about that, and Brubaker's run started with that idea for her little space in Gotham.



Interesting. I know Thomas was re-introduced in The Button, but I've never thought he was going to be a bit part of Doomsday Clock, since he's such a huge thematic element of King's run.

I think it was supposed to tie in with Doomsday Clock similar to Jor-El in the Superman books and the 3 Jokers.

These 3 plot points are the things that spun out from the Rebirth one-shot, but none of them ever got resolved.

Hopefully the Thomas Wayne plot gets resolved well.

The Jor-El plot line just kind of fizzled away.

And I'll believe the 3 Jokers exists when I see the first issue on the stands.

[millernumber1]

I think it was supposed to tie in with Doomsday Clock similar to Jor-El in the Superman books and the 3 Jokers.

These 3 plot points are the things that spun out from the Rebirth one-shot, but none of them ever got resolved.

Hopefully the Thomas Wayne plot gets resolved well.

The Jor-El plot line just kind of fizzled away.

And I'll believe the 3 Jokers exists when I see the first issue on the stands.

There's so much thematic connection, to me, between Bruce and Thomas, that I think it has the best chance of being resolved in an interesting and satisfying - though probably super tragic - way. I'm pretty excited!

[chipsnopotatoes]

Unfortunately, I think King lost his game somewhere during that run. The build up was incredible but the payoff is leaving me lukewarm. I wish there wasn't a Thomas Wayne in that story and I didn't felt the resolution of the whole Bat-Cat was enough.

And no, Gotham was never Catwoman's. She is being extremely overated as of now.

I have a totally different interpretation of that comment. If you take into account what’s going on in her book, Joelle is making her mob queen again. So, I think she may have a little ulterior motive in helping Bats take out Bane so she fills in that role when he’s defeated. Hence “my city” vs “our city”

Am I the only one on this thread who believes it won’t end well for batcat, especially with psycho pirate now coming into the picture?

[Chubistian]

Excellent analysis, Chubistian! I hadn't even thought of Thomas healing so quickly, though the theories about platinum Kryptonite or super Venom might apply here.

The Knightfall callbacks are pretty great - it's pretty fun seeing Bruce mirroring Bane...though I do wonder what it means beyond just the visual. Bruce's actions towards Bane throughout King's run have raised questions, which your comment about the Gotham Knights story fits perfectly into.

Thanks! I guess Bruce wanted to do the same thing that Bane did to him, not only by breaking his back, but by taking everything from him when Bane was in the best place he could be. I think you mentioned Thomas's words a few pages back in this thread: when you think you've won, you have actually lost. It seems it's not only true for Bane, who has lost it all (and the question remains if he ever was truly in charge of anything), but also for Bruce, who when he thought had beaten Bane, his "father" came in to show him that he was far away from achieving victory

This "rule" seems applicable to other moments in the story: Thomas thinking he convinced Bruce to join him; Batman defeating Bane in I Am Bane, etcetera

[millernumber1]

I have a totally different interpretation of that comment. If you take into account what’s going on in her book, Joelle is making her mob queen again. So, I think she may have a little ulterior motive in helping Bats take out Bane so she fills in that role when he’s defeated. Hence “my city” vs “our city”

Am I the only one on this thread who believes it won’t end well for batcat, especially with psycho pirate now coming into the picture?

I think if they break up in 85, I don't think that means that Bat/Cat will have them broken up in the end.

Thanks! I guess Bruce wanted to do the same thing that Bane did to him, not only by breaking his back, but by taking everything from him when Bane was in the best place he could be. I think you mentioned Thomas's words a few pages back in this thread: when you think you've won, you have actually lost. It seems it's not only true for Bane, who has lost it all (and the question remains if he ever was truly in charge of anything), but also for Bruce, who when he thought had beaten Bane, his "father" came in to show him that he was far away from achieving victory

This "rule" seems applicable to other moments in the story: Thomas thinking he convinced Bruce to join him; Batman defeating Bane in I Am Bane, etcetera

I think there's a lot of "when you think you've won, you've already lost" in this run. It makes me really wonder how King will sell the ending. I think he will, I am just really curious about how!

[Coco Loco]

Excellent analysis, Chubistian! I hadn't even thought of Thomas healing so quickly, though the theories about platinum Kryptonite or super Venom might apply here.

Thomas’ “tea” probably is, well, something other than tea.

[TheJudge95]

I think I meta-read this issue, knowing beforehand that Bane will be defeated, which was spoiled by solicits as well as the cover which implied that Flashpoint Batman is the puppet-master. So the stakes didn't feel very high to me and it felt very procedural - except when Thomas Wayne walked through the door and shot them both. I also thought the threat was taken out of Bane in this issue with him falling for the super-venom ruse and not putting up much of a fight. On the other hand, it was shown way back in Batman #69 that Bane was overconfident and Flashpoint Batman warned him of that, so I guess him playing second fiddle to Flashpoint Batman is consistent. Maybe Flashpoint Batman was the mastermind behind breaking Batman and not Bane as previously thought.

[dietrich]

Bruce doesn't even respect his poor fella Joker. Damn you Batman!


This reminded me of the "nothing to prove" from Ten Nights of the Beast, where Bruce also "cheated". A storyline that King already referenced in Beasts of Burden, when Batman left the Beast to die in the snow, though in Tyrant Wing an ambiguous scenario is created where the reader gets to decide if Bruce knew or not that the place was under vigilance by the JTTF

It appears I was wrong. Thanks for the scans. I haven't read these or much of the old well anything past mid 90's comics.

[millernumber1]

Thomas’ “tea” probably is, well, something other than tea.

That Platinum Kryptonite tea is something else, especially when infused with super venom.

I think I meta-read this issue, knowing beforehand that Bane will be defeated, which was spoiled by solicits as well as the cover which implied that Flashpoint Batman is the puppet-master. So the stakes didn't feel very high to me and it felt very procedural - except when Thomas Wayne walked through the door and shot them both. I also thought the threat was taken out of Bane in this issue with him falling for the super-venom ruse and not putting up much of a fight. On the other hand, it was shown way back in Batman #69 that Bane was overconfident and Flashpoint Batman warned him of that, so I guess him playing second fiddle to Flashpoint Batman is consistent. Maybe Flashpoint Batman was the mastermind behind breaking Batman and not Bane as previously thought.

A rare case of the cover being COMPLETELY ACCURATE! I do like the parallel between Batman beating the heck out of Bane and I Am Bane.

[Chubistian]

It appears I was wrong. Thanks for the scans. I haven't read these or much of the old well anything past mid 90's comics.

The first one is from Batman #400, that I think is the last pre-Crisis Batman story, where Ra's Al Ghul frees every Arkham inmate (kinda proto-Knightfall). It's pretty good and has a lot of guest artists. The second is Ten Night of the Beast, written by Jim Starlin that is a pretty controversial Batman writer. I recommend both stories if you ever feel interested in them

I think a character as Batman has had so many versions that at the end of the day, there's always an antecedent to back up most arguments. Probably there're out there many cases where Batman has respected a code of honor, even risking his life to do so, and hasn't cheated against his adversary

[millernumber1]

The first one is from Batman #400, that I think is the last pre-Crisis Batman story, where Ra's Al Ghul frees every Arkham inmate (kinda proto-Knightfall). It's pretty good and has a lot of guest artists. The second is Ten Night of the Beast, written by Jim Starlin that is a pretty controversial Batman writer. I recommend both stories if you ever feel interested in them

I think a character as Batman has had so many versions that at the end of the day, there's always an antecedent to back up most arguments. Probably there're out there many cases where Batman has respected a code of honor, even risking his life to do so, and hasn't cheated against his adversary

I thought that was Knight and Squire

[Chubistian]

I thought that was Knight and Squire

We need them back!!! Oh, wait. They didn’t receive a happy ending in Batman INC, right?

[millernumber1]

We need them back!!! Oh, wait. They didn’t receive a happy ending in Batman INC, right?

They super did not. But in my HEART they did!

[charliehustle415]

They super did not. But in my HEART they did!

That scene with Squire sitting on the couch, my heart aches.