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  1. #1786
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob/.schoonover View Post
    This is kind of tangential to the idea that Bruce was manipulated into proposing*: What happened in Arkham while Alfred was supposed to be monitoring Psycho Pirate's "healing" of Claire? There are four basic possibilities for Claire that I see:

    1. Claire was in on it from the beginning (including letting Psycho Pirate screw her up, having her parents killed, etc), so PP's healing in Arkham was merely part of the plot to restore her to her generally evil-ish self

    2. Claire is cured during I Am Bane, but Bane offers the opportunity to join him in return for the reveal in The Price, that her brother might be brought back

    3. At some point between I Am Bane and The Wedding, Claire is re-manipulated by Psycho Pirate off screen

    4. Alfred somehow failed in getting PP to heal Claire during I Am Bane.

    I don't entirely like any of these (3 and 4 happening offscreen is poor storytelling, 2 happened during a non-King story, and 1 just makes me sad for liking Claire so much in the beginning). Any other ideas?

    *Was Claire manipulating Bruce into proposing in 24 with their chat about happiness? If not, it's hard to imagine that Bane did something to take Bruce over the top on proposing (rather than it being something he did on his own or something he chose to do because of interacting with his dad in The Button).
    I think Claire was part of Bane's manipulation. I don't know if it was conscious on her part at that point or not. By 50, it's clearly conscious.

    My own current interpretation is that Psycho Pirate only APPEARED to cure her - a variation of #4. He gave her a temporary fix.

    Batman said he was going to destroy PP's mask after I Am Bane...but clearly, he either didn't, or destroyed a fake, or a new one was made. So I think what happened in I Am Bane is deeper than meets the eye.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  2. #1787
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Great issue, great art. Nice to see all the pieces spelled out. The Penguin thing was odd but so what. Not exactly the point that it was the Penguin - the point was Thomas was going around killing bad guys in cold blood, Judge Dredd style.

    The whole premise of him coming to this universe was good, I feel. But what he did once he got here didn't, to me, fit well with his MO. But then again, had he done what he does then there wouldn't be any Batman villains left alive!

    Part of me is hoping for a fight next issue, as seems destined to happen. But I'd rather have them talk this out and have Bruce convincingly lay out why his way is the best way. We've seen Bruce toy with the "Thomas Way" before but he's never really done it.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  3. #1788
    Reader of Stuff Hilden B. Lade's Avatar
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    King just posted some art from Batman 85:

    https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status...02769825734656

    spoilers:
    Looks like he got to keep his promise of ending the run with Bats and Kite-Man in a bar...
    end of spoilers

  4. #1789
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilden B. Lade View Post
    King just posted some art from Batman 85:

    https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status...02769825734656

    spoilers:
    Looks like he got to keep his promise of ending the run with Bats and Kite-Man in a bar...
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    Hell Yeah!!
    end of spoilers
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  5. #1790
    Incredible Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilden B. Lade View Post
    King just posted some art from Batman 85:

    https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status...02769825734656

    spoilers:
    Looks like he got to keep his promise of ending the run with Bats and Kite-Man in a bar...
    end of spoilers
    That's awesome. Hype!
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  6. #1791

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    This reminds me, is there a significance for that one Football Player always being name dropped?

  7. #1792
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    This reminds me, is there a significance for that one Football Player always being name dropped?
    He's named after one of King's real life friends who also happens to do a Batman podcast called Gotham by Geeks.

  8. #1793
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilden B. Lade View Post
    King just posted some art from Batman 85:

    https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status...02769825734656

    spoilers:
    Looks like he got to keep his promise of ending the run with Bats and Kite-Man in a bar...
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    Hold on, he said Batman and Kiteman. That is clearly Bruce Wayne and Charles Brown. Still cool.
    end of spoilers

  9. #1794
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyxx1481 View Post
    He's named after one of King's real life friends who also happens to do a Batman podcast called Gotham by Geeks.
    Oh, I love that podcast when they do interviews with King. They have a nice chemistry.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  10. #1795
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco Loco View Post
    My first thought when reading this issue was that King was just repeating the formalistic style of the Grayson Futures End book - but in retrospect I think the structure added to the story’s impact. Working backwards highlights very well not only the guiding principle behind everything Thomas did, but it shows very clearly how his actions have turned him into the bad guy. He’s horrified when FP Martha kills Alfred - but eventually he does (or is party to) the exact same thing. He allies himself with the very monsters he was supposed to be fighting. And every step of the way it makes perfect sense to him - it’s only when you look back at the whole picture that you see how far off-course he’s gotten. Having those reveals appear in reverse order increases their impact.
    Just wanted to say, great comment. I think Inversed's recap was also correct. As far as Gotham Girl's complicity, I think she's been under the influence of Psycho Pirate at least as far back as The Price (she was really zany in that), and The Price suggests Bane got to her after I am Bane ("After my brother died and Batman left me..."). The fact that Bane had to bribe her with resurrecting her brother suggests that she wasn't under his or Psycho Pirate's control at that point. So I think her conversation with Bats in #24 is genuine and not part of the larger manipulation.

    TLDR; option #2 and #3.

  11. #1796
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Forgive me if I spoil anything but I wasnt sure how to post a reply with hidden text. Once again Tom King punks Batman as he stands there and lets an old man knock him on his butt with one punch. King is a hack and has no clue how to write Batman
    The old man was also Batman. Batman still won.

  12. #1797
    Astonishing Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    really makes me sad King's batcat run isn't starting next month, I know it's for Clay to have time draw the entire series but now we won't see a conclusion to the story till 2021.
    Last edited by DragonPiece; 12-06-2019 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Damn grammar

  13. #1798
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    really makes me sad King's batcat run isn't starting next month, I know it's for Clat to have time draw the entire series but now we won't say a conclusion to the story till 2021.
    Agreed. I really just want to keep reading this Batman - and it's gonna be extra hard now that it's monthly. 4 years of twice a month does something to your expectations!
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  14. #1799
    Mighty Member Katana500's Avatar
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    I'm a wee bit nervous that the last issue has so many plot threads to tie up it might not manage - Bat/Cat, Thomas, Gotham Girl and the Family plus Kite man! I have faith in King though.

    Speaking of Gotham Girl - I'm still super curious about what her fate is going to be? Do you think her story might continue as a sub plot in Batman/Catwoman?

  15. #1800
    Incredible Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katana500 View Post
    I'm a wee bit nervous that the last issue has so many plot threads to tie up it might not manage - Bat/Cat, Thomas, Gotham Girl and the Family plus Kite man! I have faith in King though.

    Speaking of Gotham Girl - I'm still super curious about what her fate is going to be? Do you think her story might continue as a sub plot in Batman/Catwoman?
    I think her story will continue in Batman/Catwoman. I don't know if King wants to let the character roam free after his run is over or if he will kill her, but I'm more inclined to the first option. He was glad that Viv Vision found her way in other titles, so I don't think he is misgiving towards editorial when it comes to his original characters, contrary to the impression I have about Frank Miller and Elektra back in the 80s. I think King still has some plans for Gotham Girl in the limited series he will write and that her story won't be solved in issue #85, that I think will be dedicated mostly to the conflict between Thomas and Bruce
    Last edited by Chubistian; 12-06-2019 at 11:27 AM.
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

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