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  1. #226
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Okay there's no way this run stays part of DC canon unless Bruce is about to retire. All the villains can't know Bruce is Batman.
    I don't think they do. Bane already knows and likes to keep it to himself. Since they're all working under him, there's no need for the ones who know to share it with the ones who don't know. The others would be on a need-to-know basis. Assuming the good guys are under influence, they won't be made to reveal it either because the hypnotist is intimidated by Bane.

  2. #227
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I don't think they do. Bane already knows and likes to keep it to himself. Since they're all working under him, there's no need for the ones who know to share it with the ones who don't know. The others would be on a need-to-know basis. Assuming the good guys are under influence, they won't be made to reveal it either because the hypnotist is intimidated by Bane.
    Nah Holly knows as do GG, Joker, Ivy, Harley. I don't see how it's not being spread around Arkham once Holly returns from her visit to the manor.

  3. #228
    Incredible Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Nah Holly knows as do GG, Joker, Ivy, Harley. I don't see how it's not being spread around Arkham once Holly returns from her visit to the manor.
    Would it be spread though? Harley and Ivy play closer to the "good" guys nowadays and we don't know yet what GG and Holly's true intentions are, but pre N52 Riddler knew Bruce's identity and he never gave it away and Joker was explicitly revelead to know it in Snyder's Endgame and he didn't say a thing to anyone. Hugo Strange also has been aware of Batman's identity in more than one continuity and Bane has always known it (except, MAYBE, in the N52, since he never did say something that could lead someone to think he knew it). Skeeter and Thomas Wayne are from the future and another timeline respectively , and those type of characters don't go out spoiling everything they know usually. Ventriloquist and PP can pefectly be with the team, unaware of Batman's identity, the latter being someone aware of every continuity though... Well, anyone except from Thomas, GG, Holly, Joker and Bane can be unaware of Batman's identity as far as we know and only know some information of the overall plan to break the Bat ... again
    Last edited by Chubistian; 07-04-2018 at 03:39 AM.
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  4. #229
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Nah Holly knows as do GG, Joker, Ivy, Harley. I don't see how it's not being spread around Arkham once Holly returns from her visit to the manor.
    No, I know they know. That's why I said I don't think they, the ones who know, tell the ones who don't know (Ventriloquist, Riddler, Strange) as long as they're working with Bane.

    (I said, "I don't think they do". I should've said, "I don't think all of them do". My mistake)

    About Holly, I only read what's available on the internet. Was the Bane meeting in Arkham? Meaning it's been taken over by Bane? Meaning Holly is free and not detained by Batman?

    If so that depends on how much she cares. Let's say she follows Bane's plan to get her self out of jail, because letting Selina married meaning she feels like she has to confess her murder to let Selina live a happy life, just like what they discussed in Talia's sanctuary. If that's the case then she won't need to reveal Batman's identity to anyone, since the plan succeeded. On top of Bane possibly killing her for doing so, of course
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 07-04-2018 at 04:22 AM.

  5. #230
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    No, I know they know. That's why I said I don't think they, the ones who know, tell the ones who don't know (Ventriloquist, Riddler, Strange) as long as they're working with Bane.

    (I said, "I don't think they do". I should've said, "I don't think all of them do". My mistake)

    About Holly, I only read what's available on the internet. Was the Bane meeting in Arkham? Meaning it's been taken over by Bane? Meaning Holly is free and not detained by Batman?

    If so that depends on how much she cares. Let's say she follows Bane's plan to get her self out of jail, because letting Selina married meaning she feels like she has to confess her murder to let Selina live a happy life, just like what they discussed in Talia's sanctuary. If that's the case then she won't need to reveal Batman's identity to anyone, since the plan succeeded. On top of Bane possibly killing her for doing so, of course
    Holly is locked up at Arkham but it seems like she can come and go. I don't think Bane will care if anyone cares knows. Selina sure didn't seem to care if Holly knew. There was nothing to suggest it was secret. I mean Selina blind folded Holly on the way to Wayne manor and then took the Blindfold off for her to see the surroundings, Bruce and move around the place.

    I how idiotic is that? What was the point of that? So she wont know the directions to Wayne manor?

    Right now Batman, his principals and his secret identity is a joke.

  6. #231
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Holly is locked up at Arkham but it seems like she can come and go. I don't think Bane will care if anyone cares knows. Selina sure didn't seem to care if Holly knew. There was nothing to suggest it was secret. I mean Selina blind folded Holly on the way to Wayne manor and then took the Blindfold off for her to see the surroundings, Bruce and move around the place.

    I how idiotic is that? What was the point of that? So she wont know the directions to Wayne manor?

    Right now Batman, his principals and his secret identity is a joke.
    Oh yeah, that is weird. If Holly's locked up in Arkham then I assume somewhere in the past Batman already handed her over, which explains how Selina can just walk around free in town in the past issues, but how she can just come and go from Arkham... and getting blindfolded on the way, only to let her see Bruce... that's just counterproductive.

    Selina I guess just trust Holly for being a friend, and Bruce trusts Selina... oh wait... are they assuming because Holly handed herself over for Selina's happiness, that's why they feel they can trust her?

    The reason I think Bane care is based on the previous characterization. He never told anyone he found out Batman's identity. I assume because he doesn't want other villains to destroy Batman without being part of his plan.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 07-04-2018 at 05:05 AM.

  7. #232
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregpersons View Post
    My guess is that, eventually, Bane will reveal his hand. Or that it will be discovered. At some point down the line, Batman & Bane & Catwoman will be in conflict again.

    After Bat/Cat reunite to take Bane down, again — revenge for revenge for revenge — then they will probably wonder, "What if we stopped this cycle? What if we changed?"

    And they will wonder, and wonder, but never change.

    That's my guess for something that would be in keeping with the run's themes.
    For this twist to actually matter, I hope that King deals with both Bane and Batman's plots immediately, and doesn't just let it sit. Otherwise it will feel like he took the easy way out of the marriage, which I think would have been harder to write.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    I will be spoiling the issue, so for those who haven't read it and are still trying to stay safe from spoilers, jump my post.

    As a PR stunt, the wedding was underwhelming, why bother to go to such lenghts, even offering so many expensive and exclusives variant covers is beyond me. Some secrecy was in order, and this story could've benefit from receiving less attention and just tell the story it needed to tell.

    Because the story fits the tone and path the serie was following. Both ways were possible, they marry or they don't, the seed of doubt was already there, especially with Joker two-part arc. The issue is rather well told, with some amazing art, and I like that the idea of the letters came back, since the way Selina and Bruce talked about each other was more fitting that way.

    What this issue does best is, like #24, make the whole second year (and a little more) of King's Batman come full circle but it also ties the first and second year. Everything that happenend in the first 24 issues regain importance and I, sincerely, don't know where the story will go from here (except for Batman being angrier), which is always exciting.

    Now, I'll let some of my fanatism go out... DAMN BANE, YOU REALLY DID IT THIS TIME. Janin owed me a Bane in costume, so I'm satisfied in that aspect and really wondering wtf with Bane's team. I don't know if the payoff will be satisfying, but if there's a place where such a twist could work, it's in comicbooks.
    Well said. I do like the idea that everyone being there means it's all been part of a plan - though I'm very curious if this plan started with I Am Suicide, or if it's from the beginning, as is implied by Gotham Girl and Hugo Strange being part of the group. (When my review posts, I'll probably link or repost it here, since I spent a long time thinking through this issue in it.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    Would it be spread though? Harley and Ivy play closer to the "good" guys nowadays and we don't know yet what GG and Holly's true intentions are, but pre N52 Riddler knew Bruce's identity and he never gave it away and Joker was explicitly revelead to know it in Snyder's Endgame and he didn't say a thing to anyone. Hugo Strange also has been aware of Batman's identity in more than one continuity and Bane has always known it (except, MAYBE, in the N52, since he never did say something that could lead someone to think he knew it). Skeeter and Thomas Wayne are from the future and another timeline respectively , and those type of characters don't go out spoiling everything they know usually. Ventriloquist and PP can pefectly be with the team, unaware of Batman's identity, the latter being someone aware of every continuity though... Well, anyone except from Thomas, GG, Holly, Joker and Bane can be unaware of Batman's identity as far as we know and only know some information of the overall plan to break the Bat ... again
    I pretty much agree with this reasoning.

    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Holly is locked up at Arkham but it seems like she can come and go. I don't think Bane will care if anyone cares knows. Selina sure didn't seem to care if Holly knew. There was nothing to suggest it was secret. I mean Selina blind folded Holly on the way to Wayne manor and then took the Blindfold off for her to see the surroundings, Bruce and move around the place.
    I don't think Holly can come and go - I think that was just Selina's planning for one night. But the implication was that Selina and Holly both knew from the first night they met Batman in Batman Year One. I don't quite get the blindfold, though.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  8. #233
    Empty is thy hand!
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    Bad plots I can handle, but this thing is just written so poorly written. And if half your book is pin-up art, don't ruin it by slapping "Bat" or "Cat" randomly on the page. King isn't a third as deep or clever as he thinks he is.

  9. #234
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceWayneJr. View Post
    Bad plots I can handle, but this thing is just written so poorly written. And if half your book is pin-up art, don't ruin it by slapping "Bat" or "Cat" randomly on the page. King isn't a third as deep or clever as he thinks he is.
    I'm really not a fan of the us of pinups, but I thought the letters themselves, the parallels, and the character interactions between Bruce and Alfred were really, really well done.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  10. #235
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I don't think Holly can come and go - I think that was just Selina's planning for one night. But the implication was that Selina and Holly both knew from the first night they met Batman in Batman Year One. I don't quite get the blindfold, though.
    That makes more sense. Selina wants her best friend to be there before they go their separate ways, so she broke her out.

  11. #236
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    That makes more sense. Selina wants her best friend to be there before they go their separate ways, so she broke her out.
    She didn't really break her out - she just took her out, then put her back.

    As for "best friend"...I know some people really love Holly and Selina's friendship, but Holly's been a pretty terrible friend in this run. Framing Selina, running away and sticking her with the death penalty, then spoilers:
    working for Bane to destroy every chance of happines...
    end of spoilers
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  12. #237
    Mighty Member Waterfall's Avatar
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    I absolutely enjoyed the issue. The fault falls on DC and the PR team for hyping it up as something it wasn't.

  13. #238
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterfall View Post
    I absolutely enjoyed the issue. The fault falls on DC and the PR team for hyping it up as something it wasn't.
    I think there is a sort of problem on King's end, but the real blame definitely falls on the overhyping and spoiling, agreed.

    What did you like best about the issue? For me, it was Bruce and Alfred, and the parallels, especially the final pages of Bruce and Selina, spoilers:
    jumping off the rooftops in opposite directions.
    end of spoilers My heart almost stopped, it was so beautiful and painful.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  14. #239
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    My prediction, Bane will have a stint as Batman.

  15. #240
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armor of God View Post
    My prediction, Bane will have a stint as Batman.
    Huh. That would be interesting. But I don't see it.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

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