King Batman Run: Analysis and Enjoyment Thread

[failo.legendkiller]

Exactly. You. But what you asked isn't about you, it's about other people. So I'm answering what those other people's problem with it. You decided to stay with DC despite your complaint, they don't. That's their decision.

So other people prefer to read a marriage story without quality rather than a nice comic book written and drawn well?

I think that when you have in your hands a quality thing you can't be upset.
Maybe the marriage will be at the end or maybe not, that really doesn't matter!

DC has exploited marriage as a marketing strategy to sell, of course! I don't find anything new in such a strategy, any company does it, and I don't find anything so despicable if in any case what sold you is a quality product.

[Restingvoice]

So other people prefer to read a marriage story without quality rather than a nice comic book written and drawn well?

I think that when you have in your hands a quality thing you can't be upset.
Maybe the marriage will be at the end or maybe not, that really doesn't matter!

DC has exploited marriage as a marketing strategy to sell, of course! I don't find anything new in such a strategy, any company does it, and I don't find anything so despicable if in any case what sold you is a quality product.

Probably. I know some people follow their favorite character no matter the story is good or bad, and I know others who only tolerate other story elements they dislike because they want to see their favorite characters get together.

...Or they're lapsed reader who is interested to come back because Batman gets married, because that means a change in the status quo... or they're a loyal follower of the series who, while they acknowledge the story's good, won't stand for DC's business ethics... or they're recent follower of DC, so they don't know that DC or Marvel like to do this, and this is their first experience being tricked by marketing so they decided why stick around... especially if they have other entertainment, like movies, tvs, novels to follow.

[failo.legendkiller]

Probably. I know some people follow their favorite character no matter the story is good or bad, and I know others who only tolerate other story elements they dislike because they want to see their favorite characters get together.

...Or they're lapsed reader who is interested to come back because Batman gets married, because that means a change in the status quo... or they're a loyal follower of the series who, while they acknowledge the story's good, won't stand for DC's business ethics... or they're recent follower of DC, so they don't know that DC or Marvel like to do this, and this is their first experience being tricked by marketing so they decided why stick around... especially if they have other entertainment, like movies, tvs, novels to follow.

...or they are occasional readers attracted by the subject of marriage that remain intrigued by the course of events and who will continue to buy the book.

Anyway, I am surprised by the complaints of regular readers, and it is to those I referred to in my first post.
Precisely those who should be more savvy and who know how the comic book market works and who should still recognize when a product is quality or not.

[Restingvoice]

...or they are occasional readers attracted by the subject of marriage that remain intrigued by the course of events and who will continue to buy the book.

Anyway, I am surprised by the complaints of regular readers, and it is to those I referred to in my first post.
Precisely those who should be more savvy and who know how the comic book market works and who should still recognize when a product is quality or not.

I know there's one person in this community whose first Batman book in a long time is this issue, and they find it really good and want to continue, yes.

Ah okay, that's fair. Then let's wait for their answers.

[kjn]

So other people prefer to read a marriage story without quality rather than a nice comic book written and drawn well?

I think that when you have in your hands a quality thing you can't be upset.
Maybe the marriage will be at the end or maybe not, that really doesn't matter!

DC has exploited marriage as a marketing strategy to sell, of course! I don't find anything new in such a strategy, any company does it, and I don't find anything so despicable if in any case what sold you is a quality product.

You're putting up a false dichotomy here, since quality and topic are orthogonal: you can have good and bad marriage stories in comics, just as you can have good and bad comic stories on any other subject.

Rather, I think the problem lies in how the story was marketed, and not only by DC but also by Tom King. King now appears to have had this story set up for a 100-issue arc, with this as a midpoint climax and pushing the characters to a low point, from which Batman and friends would recover and work their way up from. But neither King nor DC treated it as such. The story in #50 also seems to be more about the reveal to the reader rather than a change in Batman (though the relation between Batman and Catwoman obviously changed).

This is complicated by that a marriage is one of the classic ways to finalise a story. A classic romance story can end at one of three points: a kiss, a marriage, or the birth of a child. This means that no matter what DC or Tom King does, they are working in a huge sea of expectations of storytelling directions and expectations, and neither of them did little to moderate those expectations. Instead, they fanned them with their variant covers and special buildup issues.

[failo.legendkiller]

You're putting up a false dichotomy here, since quality and topic are orthogonal: you can have good and bad marriage stories in comics, just as you can have good and bad comic stories on any other subject.

I wanted to say that people would also accept a poor quality story as long as the marriage was celebrated.

Rather, I think the problem lies in how the story was marketed, and not only by DC but also by Tom King. King now appears to have had this story set up for a 100-issue arc, with this as a midpoint climax and pushing the characters to a low point, from which Batman and friends would recover and work their way up from. But neither King nor DC treated it as such. The story in #50 also seems to be more about the reveal to the reader rather than a change in Batman (though the relation between Batman and Catwoman obviously changed).

This is complicated by that a marriage is one of the classic ways to finalise a story. A classic romance story can end at one of three points: a kiss, a marriage, or the birth of a child. This means that no matter what DC or Tom King does, they are working in a huge sea of expectations of storytelling directions and expectations, and neither of them did little to moderate those expectations. Instead, they fanned them with their variant covers and special buildup issues.

They've pushed the wedding, it's obvious for marketing reasons. Was it an honest choice towards the fans? Probably not, but that's how world goes on, we can't be surprised.
Anyway we had no marriage, but the story is not concluded at all.

[Aahz]

So other people prefer to read a marriage story without quality rather than a nice comic book written and drawn well?

Drawn surely, but written is up to debate imo.

[GreatKungLao]

So other people prefer to read a marriage story without quality rather than a nice comic book written and drawn well?

I think that when you have in your hands a quality thing you can't be upset.
Maybe the marriage will be at the end or maybe not, that really doesn't matter!

DC has exploited marriage as a marketing strategy to sell, of course! I don't find anything new in such a strategy, any company does it, and I don't find anything so despicable if in any case what sold you is a quality product.

I've being reading regular Batman for a enough long time to desire for drastic change of pace and marriage to Catwoman could've been that turning point. We have seen them solo enough already. Having them as a canon couple in main continuity sounded hella exciting. I want high quality married BatCat stories over high quality regular Batman stories. Let the character evolve already, it's been 80 freaking years.

[failo.legendkiller]

I've being reading regular Batman for a enough long time to desire for drastic change of pace and marriage to Catwoman could've been that turning point. We have seen them solo enough already. Having them as a canon couple in main continuity sounded hella exciting. I want high quality married BatCat stories over high quality regular Batman stories. Let the character evolve already, it's been 80 freaking years.

Nothing of what happened in issue 50 denies that this could happen. They have been cheated, the plot goes on.

[JasonTodd428]

Batman and Cat woman were cheated out of a Wedding but so were fans and retailers. EVERYONE at DC knew what the story was and what it entailed as did EVERYONE in DC's PR department. Yet DC and their PR people chose to act as if the wedding was a done deal AT issue #50 and that all that remained was the "I do". There is no other possible way to read all the advertising at all because ALL of it was geared toward the certainty that the wedding was happening. There was not a shadow of a doubt in any of it because if there had been a lot of people wouldn't be livid about the situation. Sorry but DC and everyone involved here aren't getting a free pass on this just because the story is good or this latest twist may lead to their eventual marriage down the line. They made a huge mistake here.

[kilderkin]

Batman and Cat woman were cheated out of a Wedding but so were fans and retailers. EVERYONE at DC knew what the story was and what it entailed as did EVERYONE in DC's PR department. Yet DC and their PR people chose to act as if the wedding was a done deal AT issue #50 and that all that remained was the "I do". There is no other possible way to read all the advertising at all because ALL of it was geared toward the certainty that the wedding was happening. There was not a shadow of a doubt in any of it because if there had been a lot of people wouldn't be livid about the situation. Sorry but DC and everyone involved here aren't getting a free pass on this just because the story is good or this latest twist may lead to their eventual marriage down the line. They made a huge mistake here.

I agree entirely

they played it as a done deal from all the hype once it got to 50

Sure I fell for it

It won't happen again with kings batman at least

The relationship no longer holds any charm given the unfeasible supposed villain meta plan and the ease with which selina turned

Imo garbage

[Mataza]

Would have been a shitty wedding. The moment all preparations were off i knew it couldnt possibly happen, the wedding of Batman and Catwoman cant be a private thing. The real wedding will be BIG, but getting there will be hard, and feel earned.
It will also probably not even be a Batbook, but a 100 page giant book. I wouldnt even be surprised if that book formed or reignited other relationships.

[millernumber1]

I agree entirely

they played it as a done deal from all the hype once it got to 50

Sure I fell for it

It won't happen again with kings batman at least

The relationship no longer holds any charm given the unfeasible supposed villain meta plan and the ease with which selina turned

Imo garbage

I don't see how the villain plan makes Batman and Catwoman's love less charming? I left the book hoping for more, wanting them to fight.

[Pohzee]

With more time to think about the last page reveal, I am now very curious as to how far back Bane has been orchestrating this whole thing. With both Holly and and Gotham Girl involved, the implication seems to me that Bane could be behind the not only the opening arc of the run with I Am Gotham, but also perhaps even before the events of the run with Holly and the Dogs of War.

I'm not sure that I quite like that idea. These kind of overreaching connections make the story feel a bit smaller in some ways.

I would greatly prefer for this not to be the case. I'd prefer Bane's involvement to begin after and as a result of I Am Suicide. One of the more interesting aspects of I Am Suicide and I Am Bane was that his actions seemed justified. One could easily understand his motivations and could see how Batman could be the villain of Bane's story by breaking into Santa Prisca, stealing the Psycho Pirate, and hooking him back up on Venom. If somehow Bane was behind the events of I Am Gotham and I Am Suicide, then it becomes less interesting to me. Bane's motivations no longer become as understandable and instead seem more like another moustache twirling attempt to "Break the Bat."

Also, King is gonna have to give me a good sell on Skeets and Flashpoint Batman. It's a little out there for me.

[millernumber1]

With more time to think about the last page reveal, I am now very curious as to how far back Bane has been orchestrating this whole thing. With both Holly and and Gotham Girl involved, the implication seems to me that Bane could be behind the not only the opening arc of the run with I Am Gotham, but also perhaps even before the events of the run with Holly and the Dogs of War.

I'm not sure that I quite like that idea. These kind of overreaching connections make the story feel a bit smaller in some ways.

I would greatly prefer for this not to be the case. I'd prefer Bane's involvement to begin after and as a result of I Am Suicide. One of the more interesting aspects of I Am Suicide and I Am Bane was that his actions seemed justified. One could easily understand his motivations and could see how Batman could be the villain of Bane's story by breaking into Santa Prisca, stealing the Psycho Pirate, and hooking him back up on Venom. If somehow Bane was behind the events of I Am Gotham and I Am Suicide, then it becomes less interesting to me. Bane's motivations no longer become as understandable and instead seem more like another moustache twirling attempt to "Break the Bat."

Also, King is gonna have to give me a good sell on Skeets and Flashpoint Batman. It's a little out there for me.

I actually like the idea that Bane orchestrated the terrorist attack and Holly's revenge, because Batman feels "off" to me in the first arc, and that goes a long way to explaining it for me.

I do hope that it doesn't go back to War of Jokes and Riddles, though. That's too far.