King Batman Run: Analysis and Enjoyment Thread

[millernumber1]

As confirmed by King on Twitter recently, Doc Shaner will be drawing Batman soon:


If he draws the interiors, it'll be a reunion of undoubtedly the best of the Darkseid War tie-in issues.

Oh, now that's interesting. He's not one of the original lineup of Knightmares artists (Moore, Gerads, Janin, Fornes, Weeks (YEAH!), Connor, and Paquette), so I wonder if he's helping Janin on Fall and the Fallen, or if he's working on 75 (since that'll be oversized), or if he's subbing for someone on Knightmares...

[Pohzee]

I thought that I saw somewhere that it was a variant, but I could easily be mistaken.

[millernumber1]

I thought that I saw somewhere that it was a variant, but I could easily be mistaken.

That would make sense. King does love to post the variants.

Speaking of which: the Frank Miller variant for #62 was actually amazing. And I say this as someone who's really disliked all of Miller's art since he finished DKR. (His storytelling is amazing, but his linework frustrates me).

But this cover - it's just packed with melancholy emotion, instead of the vague constipated anger that he usually has.

Batman 062-002.jpg

[Hilden B. Lade]

Hmm... I've checked the solicitations and it turns out Shaner is doing a variant for #66.

That devious King, getting me all excited for a variant cover! :P

[Frontier]

As confirmed by King on Twitter recently, Doc Shaner will be drawing Batman soon:

I'm kind of surprised artists keep defaulting to Ivy's New 52 costume, but I guess since they used it for "Everyone Loves Ivy" it's back to being the main frame of reference for Ivy's look.

[HeroVladimir93]

At the risk of angering some fans here, I'm not looking forward to another "death of Batman" story. Whether that death is literal or metaphorical, I feel that Batman has died enough for this era. First Grant Morrison, then Scott Snyder and now Tom King do the exact same story? It feels wrong somehow that we, as a community, are celebrating Batman's death instead of celebrating his life. It feels as if the DC higher-ups are thinking "how many sad and depressing Batman stories we can get away with until the fans eventually get tired and drop the books?" Batman, as a character and as a franchise, deserves better.

[millernumber1]

At the risk of angering some fans here, I'm not looking forward to another "death of Batman" story. Whether that death is literal or metaphorical, I feel that Batman has died enough for this era. First Grant Morrison, then Scott Snyder and now Tom King do the exact same story? It feels wrong somehow that we, as a community, are celebrating Batman's death instead of celebrating his life. It feels as if the DC higher-ups are thinking "how many sad and depressing Batman stories we can get away with until the fans eventually get tired and drop the books?" Batman, as a character and as a franchise, deserves better.

I think Batman is, at least since Year One (and O'Neil's stuff previously), foundationally sad and tragic (depressing is more a reader response, I think). I do think it's a bit frustrating that Grant Morrison is going around telling the next two major Batman writers to kill Batman off...but to be fair to Morrison, Dixon and O'Neil did Knightfall first, and that's still the model for a lot of Batman stories. Whatever happens, I hope that King puts his own twist on things!

[Inversed]

I think Batman is, at least since Year One (and O'Neil's stuff previously), foundationally sad and tragic (depressing is more a reader response, I think). I do think it's a bit frustrating that Grant Morrison is going around telling the next two major Batman writers to kill Batman off...but to be fair to Morrison, Dixon and O'Neil did Knightfall first, and that's still the model for a lot of Batman stories. Whatever happens, I hope that King puts his own twist on things!

What made King's run so appealing to me in the first place was that it didn't feel so dark and dreary, compared to alot of other Batman runs. It took itself seriously and dealt with alot of heavy elements, but it was also very lighthearted and weaves in some genuinely funny humour throughout. That's why I think everything post-50 may have felt a bit off, because its been leaning so much more into the dark, while the rest of his run did a great job controlling the balance of light and dark.

I do think in the grand scheme of his whole story, it won't feel like too big a problem, because this is essentially Act III of his 4 act story, the equivalent of the "lowest moment", so presumably by issue 75ish/Act IV, we'll get into the rise and another shift in tone, which should make it all come together really well.

[HeroVladimir93]

What made King's run so appealing to me in the first place was that it didn't feel so dark and dreary, compared to alot of other Batman runs. It took itself seriously and dealt with alot of heavy elements, but it was also very lighthearted and weaves in some genuinely funny humour throughout. That's why I think everything post-50 may have felt a bit off, because its been leaning so much more into the dark, while the rest of his run did a great job controlling the balance of light and dark.

I do think in the grand scheme of his whole story, it won't feel like too big a problem, because this is essentially Act III of his 4 act story, the equivalent of the "lowest moment", so presumably by issue 75ish/Act IV, we'll get into the rise and another shift in tone, which should make it all come together really well.

I hope so, because I stopped reading Batman after the catastrophe that was issue #50. I don't keep up with Detective Comics either, because that book doesn't honestly grab my attention. Batman is no stranger to dark and gritty storytelling and I understand that dark and gritty storytelling has given us some of the best stories in these past few decades. However, there comes to a point when it should leave people wondering if all the suffering and pain Batman endures will ultimately amount to something and if there is truly something in Batman's life that will keep him in a relatively good mood. If the character will suffer tragedy after tragedy with no light at the end of the tunnel, what's the point of reading?

[millernumber1]

What made King's run so appealing to me in the first place was that it didn't feel so dark and dreary, compared to alot of other Batman runs. It took itself seriously and dealt with alot of heavy elements, but it was also very lighthearted and weaves in some genuinely funny humour throughout. That's why I think everything post-50 may have felt a bit off, because its been leaning so much more into the dark, while the rest of his run did a great job controlling the balance of light and dark.

I do think in the grand scheme of his whole story, it won't feel like too big a problem, because this is essentially Act III of his 4 act story, the equivalent of the "lowest moment", so presumably by issue 75ish/Act IV, we'll get into the rise and another shift in tone, which should make it all come together really well.

I think you're right - it's all about the arc. And the thing is that King is shooting for 100 issues - just as Snyder went for 52, and Morrison went from 2006-2013. These kinds of arcs have to have longer ups and downs or they feel either incredibly inconsequential or really uneven. I do really hope we have a long rise to a triumph, with a quiet "consequences" arc afterwards.

I hope so, because I stopped reading Batman after the catastrophe that was issue #50. I don't keep up with Detective Comics either, because that book doesn't honestly grab my attention. Batman is no stranger to dark and gritty storytelling and I understand that dark and gritty storytelling has given us some of the best stories in these past few decades. However, there comes to a point when it should leave people wondering if all the suffering and pain Batman endures will ultimately amount to something and if there is truly something in Batman's life that will keep him in a relatively good mood. If the character will suffer tragedy after tragedy with no light at the end of the tunnel, what's the point of reading?

I agree - it's a real balancing act. I think King's gotten a lot of moments of light - the relationship with Dick after the wedding (though that, of course, ended in tragedy). I dunno if you can realistically have Batman really end in a happy way completely, but maybe end with a smile some night - that would be nice. (I still really hate the ending of Morrison's run, even though it's "Batman and Robin will never die", but ending with Bruce's son dead, his grave empty, Ra's on the warpath, and Gotham in flames...that just felt really hard, for an ending.

[Vordan]

I think you're right - it's all about the arc. And the thing is that King is shooting for 100 issues - just as Snyder went for 52, and Morrison went from 2006-2013. These kinds of arcs have to have longer ups and downs or they feel either incredibly inconsequential or really uneven. I do really hope we have a long rise to a triumph, with a quiet "consequences" arc afterwards.



I agree - it's a real balancing act. I think King's gotten a lot of moments of light - the relationship with Dick after the wedding (though that, of course, ended in tragedy). I dunno if you can realistically have Batman really end in a happy way completely, but maybe end with a smile some night - that would be nice. (I still really hate the ending of Morrison's run, even though it's "Batman and Robin will never die", but ending with Bruce's son dead, his grave empty, Ra's on the warpath, and Gotham in flames...that just felt really hard, for an ending.

Gotta put that ending into perspective with where Morrison was at. He was burned out from Big 2 cape comics. The reboot had hit, so he couldn’t even reference stuff that had happened in his own run. He was feeling unusually cynical and you can see that in both his Batman and Superman stories around that time. He kind of admits that maybe some of the criticisms about superheroes have some points. “Batman and Robin will never die” goes from being a rallying cry to an admission that Bruce is never going to achieve a meaningful victory. It’s pretty cynical for Morrison but as a Morrison fan I felt it was pretty interesting.

[millernumber1]

Gotta put that ending into perspective with where Morrison was at. He was burned out from Big 2 cape comics. The reboot had hit, so he couldn’t even reference stuff that had happened in his own run. He was feeling unusually cynical and you can see that in both his Batman and Superman stories around that time. He kind of admits that maybe some of the criticisms about superheroes have some points. “Batman and Robin will never die” goes from being a rallying cry to an admission that Bruce is never going to achieve a meaningful victory. It’s pretty cynical for Morrison but as a Morrison fan I felt it was pretty interesting.

It's interesting, but it feels like an incredibly unsatisfying ending for 7 years of work. And I get that it was almost certainly really unsatisfying for him as a writer. But as someone who was a Batman fan before and is a Batman fan after his run, it frustrates me that the ending of "Batman can do so much" is "Batman is kinda meaningless."

Anyway, don't want to get too derailed on Morrison in the King thread. I think that it's really interesting that unlike both Morrison and Snyder (or the template for both of their "death and rebirth of Batman" ideas, Knightfall), King hasn't relied in any major way on characters newly created for this arc. It's the first run that really feels like a development and recapitulation rather than "oooh, look at what I can add to Batman!" I hope that he can end the run on his terms before the universe is forced to relaunch or reboot around him. It would kinda suck if he tried to end his Batman run in a different continuity.

[Hilden B. Lade]

An upcoming art tease of Jorge Fornes' interiors:



I presume it's from his issue of Knightmares, the upcoming #66.

On a side note, is Wonder Woman in her classic star-spangled swimsuit and high heels outfit?

[millernumber1]

Holy CATS! That is some amazing art. I loved Fornes in the final issue of Tyrant Wing, but this is jaw dropping!

[BatmanJones]

Holy CATS! That is some amazing art. I loved Fornes in the final issue of Tyrant Wing, but this is jaw dropping!

Agreed. So many great artists on this run but Fornes is my favorite of the bunch. I'd be happy if he drew the rest of King's run. He out Mazzucchellis Mazzucchelli.