King Batman Run: Analysis and Enjoyment Thread

[Montressor]

I love time travel stories. I especially love the ones that dance around established continuity, careful not to disturb anything but always with that threat looming. Looking back at the Booster time travel story it was fun, a clever little throwback to Bruce's origin story. The only issues I have with it are Booster acting like a complete and total idiot with no idea of the potential damage he would do, and the idea that not only did Booster's presence affect events (Thomas Wayne changing routes down Crime Alley)*, but the 'other' Booster shoots himself dead, so there was a corpse of a man from the future, dressed in futuristic garb, found, I assume, dead on that rooftop?

Fun little story, though I was initially annoyed by it.

*One could argue that events played out exactly as they would have anyway, given that this is a solid event in the past and not a fluid future or current event that could still potentially be altered.

[Chubistian]

I will comment about the Price here even though it isn’t written by King since it plays inside his run and uses elements from it. I’m afraid to be left with nothing relevant, that we’re just going on in circles like in The Button. there seems as there is no stop with what Venom can accomplish if modified. It helped create the Monster Men and now some kinda superpowered zombiefied clones of Gotham & Gotham Girl. Still, the issues have been entertaining and art has been pretty good. I want to keep an open mind, but if this story amounts to nothing, I will be pretty unsatisfied

[millernumber1]

I will comment about the Price here even though it isn’t written by King since it plays inside his run and uses elements from it. I’m afraid to be left with nothing relevant, that we’re just going on in circles like in The Button. there seems as there is no stop with what Venom can accomplish if modified. It helped create the Monster Men and now some kinda superpowered zombiefied clones of Gotham & Gotham Girl. Still, the issues have been entertaining and art has been pretty good. I want to keep an open mind, but if this story amounts to nothing, I will be pretty unsatisfied

I do appreciate that Williamson has clearly read King's run and references it pretty heavily (Gotham Girl's speeches to her dead brother are very clearly mimicking her breakdown in Batman #6, and her use of "up, up, and away" is clearly a reference to Batman #24), but it's frustrating that he basically just reversed all of her characterization up until now and turned her into a clone of her brother - insane and destroying the lives of innocents.

[Coco Loco]

I do appreciate that Williamson has clearly read King's run and references it pretty heavily (Gotham Girl's speeches to her dead brother are very clearly mimicking her breakdown in Batman #6, and her use of "up, up, and away" is clearly a reference to Batman #24), but it's frustrating that he basically just reversed all of her characterization up until now and turned her into a clone of her brother - insane and destroying the lives of innocents.

I don’t see it as a reversal; I kind of think this is what King intended all along. Barry comments on the fact that Bruce has been missing stuff for awhile. He references the fact that Bruce never looked into where GG got her powers, which is an unusual lapse for him. I think that extended to Bruce not realizing how damaged GG really was. She seemed back to normal in #24 but that was only because Bruce (and the reader) didn’t look too closely.

[millernumber1]

I don’t see it as a reversal; I kind of think this is what King intended all along. Barry comments on the fact that Bruce has been missing stuff for awhile. He references the fact that Bruce never looked into where GG got her powers, which is an unusual lapse for him. I think that extended to Bruce not realizing how damaged GG really was. She seemed back to normal in #24 but that was only because Bruce (and the reader) didn’t look too closely.

I think the elements you point out that are important, but I think it's still too big a reversal from Gotham Girl's stated desires and the outcome of her actions. Plus, I found her speeches in the most recent issue of The Flash to be really incoherent. Maybe that was the point, but I think it could have been done in a much more logical way.

[Coco Loco]

I think the elements you point out that are important, but I think it's still too big a reversal from Gotham Girl's stated desires and the outcome of her actions. Plus, I found her speeches in the most recent issue of The Flash to be really incoherent. Maybe that was the point, but I think it could have been done in a much more logical way.

Williamson’s dialogue is rarely as crisp as King’s, so maybe that’s why her voice is a bit off. Williamson sometimes falls into the tell-don’t-show trap with his scripting.

[Hilden B. Lade]

https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status...78927741984768

A tease for Yanick Paquette's upcoming issue of Knightmares. Guess what dormant Bat-Cat question from earlier in King's run is finally making its return? :P

[millernumber1]

https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status...78927741984768

A tease for Yanick Paquette's upcoming issue of Knightmares. Guess what dormant Bat-Cat question from earlier in King's run is finally making its return? :P

I personally hope that the Boat/Street debate will prove to be a key plot point in issue 100.

[Armor of God]

King's obsession with the useless filler never ceases to amaze me. He's teasing that while Williamson is writing about Gotham Girl's heel turn and how she got her powers.
Seriously who cares how they met?

[Armor of God]

Sorry if I came across as a killjoy though.

[millernumber1]

I think King definitely is taking a lot of time in emotional exploration, both currently with Knightmares, and in general (in this run and in all of the stuff he's done that I've read). Sometimes it doesn't work, but I think it tends to work for me more often than not. As someone who really doesn't like Zero Year and loves Year One, and finds the tension between the two both interesting and frustrating, I find this other tension King's taken advantage of between Year One and the pre-Crisis Bat/Cat first meeting fascinating. Which is why I'm hoping it's a plot point.

I look at probably my favorite King issue of all time, Grayson #12, and all the stuff King was doing that seemed to just be character exploration, fanservice, and maybe even self-indulgent emotional exploration was actually part of the plot. I think all the Bat/Cat stuff, all the little bits, Kite Man, everything - I think in the end, it's all going to come together. It's just much harder to see in 100 issues than it is in a single issue.

[blunt_eastwood]

But what makes even more sense is that there'll be some kind of switcheroo where Psycho Pirate or Thomas Wayne is the actual big bad and in reality Bane is dependent on Psycho Pirate like in "I am Suicide".

So they are going to "Dark Knight Rises" Bane again?

[TheJudge95]

So they are going to "Dark Knight Rises" Bane again?

That's the feeling I'm getting. King says his run is half about Bane's hate for Batman, but Bane has been such a non-entity for at least 50% of his run and even after the reveal in #50 he's been in the shadows, besides him acting like a scared baby in Tyrant Wing. Everything after #50 is believable as being within Bane's wheelhouse - ordering hits on Nightwing and Alfred, framing Mr. Freeze, driving a rift between Batman and Gordon - but for him to have set up the Catwoman romance and then broken it up seems way too psychological for him. To make Batman have an existential crisis goes against Bane's version of honor - sure he wants to destroy him but through his own physical mastery, not through psychological warfare. The big bad being Psycho Pirate who is more about emotions would fit better with King's Freudian psycho-analytical take on Batman, too. But then again, I don't think Psycho Pirate has that big of a grudge against Batman to go through the lengths of setting this all up. In any case, I'd rather have an "It was all a hallucination" or time travel/alternate dimensions plot instead of trying to force everything that's happened into some kind of convoluted master plan. But considering that that's the direction Heroes in Crisis is probably going to end up taking, I doubt King will pull the same trick twice.

[Armor of God]

That's the feeling I'm getting. King says his run is half about Bane's hate for Batman, but Bane has been such a non-entity for at least 50% of his run and even after the reveal in #50 he's been in the shadows, besides him acting like a scared baby in Tyrant Wing. Everything after #50 is believable as being within Bane's wheelhouse - ordering hits on Nightwing and Alfred, framing Mr. Freeze, driving a rift between Batman and Gordon - but for him to have set up the Catwoman romance and then broken it up seems way too psychological for him. To make Batman have an existential crisis goes against Bane's version of honor - sure he wants to destroy him but through his own physical mastery, not through psychological warfare. The big bad being Psycho Pirate who is more about emotions would fit better with King's Freudian psycho-analytical take on Batman, too. But then again, I don't think Psycho Pirate has that big of a grudge against Batman to go through the lengths of setting this all up. In any case, I'd rather have an "It was all a hallucination" or time travel/alternate dimensions plot instead of trying to force everything that's happened into some kind of convoluted master plan. But considering that that's the direction Heroes in Crisis is probably going to end up taking, I doubt King will pull the same trick twice.

If Bane is a non entity in this run then Pirate must be non existent. Bane was the direct villain of three arcs so far and indirectly of four, maybe five and potentially six(depending on how Price and Fall & the Fallen play out) and has a big event/storyline called City of Bane coming up. Pirate was just a plot device.
What King meant was that his run is about 2 things, Batman's love for Catwoman and hate for Bane, he never said both would get 50 issues each or be equally divided, they're just 2 themes he's using.
Bane is right now the most significant villain in this run so far, at a distant place are Joker and Riddler and then everyone else.
I am Bane's third issue (18) essentially planted the idea of Batman and Bane being twins of sorts, that issue I believe will be critical going ahead. There were several hints, like Batman calling family his greatest strength only to be losing each and everyone through Bane's machinations, you had Bane vowing to conquer his enemies, the set up is there.

[millernumber1]

If Bane is a non entity in this run then Pirate must be non existent. Bane was the direct villain of three arcs so far and indirectly of four, maybe five and potentially six(depending on how Price and Fall & the Fallen play out) and has a big event/storyline called City of Bane coming up. Pirate was just a plot device.
What King meant was that his run is about 2 things, Batman's love for Catwoman and hate for Bane, he never said both would get 50 issues each or be equally divided, they're just 2 themes he's using.
Bane is right now the most significant villain in this run so far, at a distant place are Joker and Riddler and then everyone else.
I am Bane's third issue (18) essentially planted the idea of Batman and Bane being twins of sorts, that issue I believe will be critical going ahead. There were several hints, like Batman calling family his greatest strength only to be losing each and everyone through Bane's machinations, you had Bane vowing to conquer his enemies, the set up is there.

Solid analysis. I agree - I think Bane is the big bad, though I'm very curious to see how Flashpoint Batman fits into the structure. I just hope that his relationship to his family, especially Selina, comes back soon.