King Batman Run: Analysis and Enjoyment Thread

[TheJudge95]

From Batman #59
GordonPunch2.jpg

From Batman #61:
Train1.jpg

From Detective Comics #500:
IMG_3587.jpg

[millernumber1]

Since Batman #66 had the callback to Annual #2 with the splash page of Batman and Catwoman on the roof in the rain, I thought we could go through and find other instances of parallelism and references in King's run.

From Batman #25:
Attachment 79485

From Batman #59:
Attachment 79486

From Batman #9
Attachment 79487

Nice! I can't wait till the whole run is complete, and we can pore over all the pieces King put in place that paid off later!

I've noticed that Batman punching people in the face, at least when Janin is drawing them - seems to be something of a theme. Just the way Janin draws them spinning away from the punch - like here in issue 9, then in #59, punching Jim, then in 63, punching dream Constantine.

[Hilden B. Lade]

Checking out DC's future trade statuses on Edelweiss, I've noticed that the complete Knightmares arc is slated for an October release as a hardcover, instead of a paperback. Guess DC's going back to their model of releasing pricier hardcovers first and cheaper paperbacks later.

As someone's who's also picked King's run up in trades as they've happened, I guess I'll be waiting a bit longer for the paperback version just because it'll look rather awkward on my shelf for several volumes of King paperbacks to suddenly lead to a hardcover. :P

[millernumber1]

Checking out DC's future trade statuses on Edelweiss, I've noticed that the complete Knightmares arc is slated for an October release as a hardcover, instead of a paperback. Guess DC's going back to their model of releasing pricier hardcovers first and cheaper paperbacks later.

As someone's who's also picked King's run up in trades as they've happened, I guess I'll be waiting a bit longer for the paperback version just because it'll look rather awkward on my shelf for several volumes of King paperbacks to suddenly lead to a hardcover. :P

I'm personally surprised that they think the Knightmares are selling well enough to justify the pricier hardcover. They did that for Deathstroke vs. Batman, too, and I think that made sense (because there was a bit sales spike for that event), but Knightmares hasn't seemed to really indicated some kind of pickup in sales for Batman.

[Kurisu]

[millernumber1]

I'm really, really curious about this. I hope that The Fall and the Fallen is a really good leadup to this issue and City of Bane.

[Inversed]

Based on the recent solicits, I'm glad it confirmed that in The Fall And The Fallen we'll actually see Bane taking over everything and it won't be something that just suddenly happens in City Of Bane. Looks like all the desert stuff will be in the second half of the story rather than right at the beginning, which I'm happy for, makes the most sense. I'm also curious how Selina will factor into it, will there be a build up we just haven't seen yet, or will she pop up as a sudden surprise.

As for the trades thing, I wonder if they're doing that because it has the potential to be the most standalone trade of all of King's run. I've always thought that King's run is the first real Batman run that wasn't "trade-able". By that I mean unlike most other Batman runs/stories, they're all pretty self contained and feel like they're designed for you to buy and read in trades in any order you want. Even more interconnected runs like Morrison and Snyder have their stories feel, and sold that way. King on the other hand, because of how connected his overall narrative has been, the trades feel much less standalone. Like for example, you don't see people talking about/buying Death Of The Family or Endgame in the same way they would about the War Of Jokes And Riddles. The best selling, and most standalone, of the whole run has been The Button, which he wasn't completely involved with anyway. So while Knightmares is still incredibly important to his overall narrative, the nature of it being 7 standalone stories *about* Batman make it a much more easier sell as a single trade, so they're making it hardcover to make the sell even greater.

[millernumber1]

Based on the recent solicits, I'm glad it confirmed that in The Fall And The Fallen we'll actually see Bane taking over everything and it won't be something that just suddenly happens in City Of Bane. Looks like all the desert stuff will be in the second half of the story rather than right at the beginning, which I'm happy for, makes the most sense. I'm also curious how Selina will factor into it, will there be a build up we just haven't seen yet, or will she pop up as a sudden surprise.

As for the trades thing, I wonder if they're doing that because it has the potential to be the most standalone trade of all of King's run. I've always thought that King's run is the first real Batman run that wasn't "trade-able". By that I mean unlike most other Batman runs/stories, they're all pretty self contained and feel like they're designed for you to buy and read in trades in any order you want. Even more interconnected runs like Morrison and Snyder have their stories feel, and sold that way. King on the other hand, because of how connected his overall narrative has been, the trades feel much less standalone. Like for example, you don't see people talking about/buying Death Of The Family or Endgame in the same way they would about the War Of Jokes And Riddles. The best selling, and most standalone, of the whole run has been The Button, which he wasn't completely involved with anyway. So while Knightmares is still incredibly important to his overall narrative, the nature of it being 7 standalone stories *about* Batman make it a much more easier sell as a single trade, so they're making it hardcover to make the sell even greater.

That's a very good thought. I do think there's a sense that King is trying to structure at least some of his stuff as "trade length" - the first three arcs, plus War of Jokes and Riddles, but after that, I think he stopped trying for five-issue (or longer) arcs so he could work more closely with artists on arcs where they could be "in charge" and not have to get scripts done way early or switch artists mid-arc.

[Inversed]

That's a very good thought. I do think there's a sense that King is trying to structure at least some of his stuff as "trade length" - the first three arcs, plus War of Jokes and Riddles, but after that, I think he stopped trying for five-issue (or longer) arcs so he could work more closely with artists on arcs where they could be "in charge" and not have to get scripts done way early or switch artists mid-arc.

I think with the 9th volume, The Tyrant Wing, only being 3 issues long (plus the Taylor Annual and Secret Files story), it shows that he's mainly focusing on however many issues he needs for each story/to make up his 105, and not mattering if they will exactly fit into a trade or not, since his overall story is what maters most. Which I don't mind, since I think he has been handling this giant experiment really well. I think I may end up picking up the hardcover compilations eventually since that seems to be the best way to experience the whole story.

[millernumber1]

I think with the 9th volume, The Tyrant Wing, only being 3 issues long (plus the Taylor Annual and Secret Files story), it shows that he's mainly focusing on however many issues he needs for each story/to make up his 105, and not mattering if they will exactly fit into a trade or not, since his overall story is what maters most. Which I don't mind, since I think he has been handling this giant experiment really well. I think I may end up picking up the hardcover compilations eventually since that seems to be the best way to experience the whole story.

I agree. I think the Deluxe Editions are probably the most cost-effective and "best" way, since I think King ultimately hopes that people will enjoy the individual issues, but also that they enjoy it as a gigantic whole. But at 13 issues per volume, that's still a minimum of 8, probably more with spillover.

[Hilden B. Lade]

Trying to get around what the full gist of this issue is, besides being an official sequel to Batman vs. Elmer Fudd as well as the part of Knightmares that looks at
spoilers:

Batman and Joker's relationship

end of spoilers

[millernumber1]

Trying to get around what the full gist of this issue is, besides being an official sequel to Batman vs. Elmer Fudd as well as the part of Knightmares that looks at
spoilers:

Batman and Joker's relationship

end of spoilers

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks it's part of King's ongoing attempt to make Batman/Elmer Fudd canon. Though, to be fair, it is a dream, so...maybe Batman/Elmer Fudd is like Arkham Asylum by Morrison - a canon dream!

I don't actually think it's about that relationship. To me, it's both playing with symbolism of dreams - sewers being hidden, nasty thoughts, breathing underwater, falling over and over again - and a representation of the endless war on crime that Batman is in by comparing it to Wile E. Coyote and Road Runner's endless chase, similar to the Kelley Puckett/Tim Sale short "Night After Night" "I stop crime every night".

[Inversed]

spoilers:

I saw it as not just a look at Batman and Joker's relationship, but I think moreso about the nature of Batman's relationship to "the chase". He finds himself so many times relying on chasing after someone in order to get his answer, so in this case we see him chasing after a question, only to be met in the end with a meaningless joke. It's to reiterate his hopelessness and for him to possibly rethink what it really is to "be" Batman. And yeah, using the imagery of Wile E. Coyote and Road Runner pushes this comparison of the pointless chase, to the point where he instinctively acts without thinking. I do wonder how it would've been looked if he decided to make the whole thing silent, rather than including that Porky Pig joke and the ending little monologue.

end of spoilers

[Pohzee]

Man, I'm not saying that King should've done it instead, but there is literally a villain called the Roadrunner with bionic legs who probably would've given him a good chase.

[millernumber1]

I'm kinda mad I didn't think of this, but on another board, someone theorized that the "beep beep" stuff is likely Batman's dream being interrupted by a heart monitor as part of the machine he's in.