Page 4 of 86 FirstFirst 123456781454 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 1284
  1. #46
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,824

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    The first CBR article in a looooong time that I actually liked:

    How Tom King is Revolutionalizing the DC Universe by Making it More Human
    "...And he achieves all this by instilling compassion in his characters and overall plots, allowing us to empathize, whether it’s with a hero or villain. His and Mikel Janin’s “I Am Suicide” arc shocked Batman fans by revealing a young Bruce Wayne tried to kill himself after his parents’ death. Kings’ scripts humanized characters like Kite Man, a lost soul; Riddler, a desperate, lonely shell of a person looking for purpose; and even the Joker, a petulant but jealous narcissist. Most importantly, the strands of humanity he’s put into the title are set to culminate with the impending nuptials between Batman and Catwoman. After all, what’s more relatable than love and marriage?"

    I loved what he did with Kite Man. If you can make a character out of Charles Brown, then you have ability. We need more talent that can start with jokes like Kite-Man and upgrade them to characters like Kite-Man.

    I'm also glad that the Joker is now not the 'villain that no one could become'; there was a time when Mister J was not allowed to be shown doing anything that would humanize him. He was just evil for evil's sake and an mortal embodiment of chaos. This is lousy character development.

    I also like the description of the Riddler. His new look is good too.
    Last edited by scary harpy; 06-12-2018 at 07:07 PM.

  2. #47
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,824

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    You think the moaning about King's writing comes from the Batgod thing DC's been promoting for sometime? Though king has yet to tap into Selina's human qualities I think he's saving that for Joelle Jones.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Dying Detective View Post
    If anything the Batgod might be alive in King's iteration of Batman just in smaller doses. I never thought Batman could even headbutt someone as strong as Bane let alone reset his back considering how much toil and struggle batman went through just to reset it in after Knightfall.
    Batgod is a product of the 90s (and a bad one). I know he will always have his diehard fans though.

    We are over a decade and a half beyond the Nineties...and I am well over Batgod.

  3. #48
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    The other side
    Posts
    588

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    Batgod is a product of the 90s (and a bad one). I know he will always have his diehard fans though.

    We are over a decade and a half beyond the Nineties...and I am well over Batgod.
    I don't buy all this Batgod talk. Why do so many people (so-called Batman fans included) want to downplay Batman's capabilities. I think he is the only A-list hero who gets criticized for being effective. I never hear people calling for Superman to be made less powerful, recently when DC said new character Damage was stronger than Supes people were pissed. No one is calling for Wonder Woman to be scaled back, if anything people want her to be more powerful than she already is. They want Flash (Barry or Wally) to be the fastest and so on. But when it comes to Batman all you hear is he is too good, he needs to be humbled, less effective, taken down a peg. He shouldn't be recognized as on of the smartest people on earth, he shouldn't be recognized as one of the top martial artist or best detectives. Despite the fact that that he has been built up in canon for decades to be so in feats and deeds. Batman has built himself up to be the perfect human through intense training and dedication to be able to stand alongside gods. And any so-called Batgod feats he has achieved he has earned, and none of them came easily. Now let's look at another human who stands alongside gods and often prevails against them, Lex Luthor. Lex is less capable than Bruce, all he has to relie on is his intelligence. Yet Lex has acomplished greats feats that rivals and in some cases surpasses Batman. He is a force to be reckoned with in the meta community despite being a mere human (look no further than Justice League #1). Yet I never hear talk of Lexgod, no one says Lex is just a mere mortal, no powers, he needs to downplayed, less effective. No that complaint is reserved for Batman. And then there the argument that he needs to be humanized, whatever that means (l think give him more flaws and make him less capable). I think if King was writing Superman, Wonder Woman or any other top tier character in the same vein as he writing Batman right now fans of those characters would have the same issues as some Batman fans have with King's portrayal. I know some like King's run but I just can't understand how a Batman fan can be counted among them when this Batman is so lacking all areas. Practically playing second fiddle to Selina in his own book.

  4. #49
    BANNED
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,132

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    I don't buy all this Batgod talk. Why do so many people (so-called Batman fans included) want to downplay Batman's capabilities. I think he is the only A-list hero who gets criticized for being effective. I never hear people calling for Superman to be made less powerful
    Might be you`re just too young. Not only is that ever a recurring pop culture theme around the character as far as the general audience goes that was almost virtually what the original Crisis was for.

  5. #50
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    10,269

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    "...And he achieves all this by instilling compassion in his characters and overall plots, allowing us to empathize, whether it’s with a hero or villain. His and Mikel Janin’s “I Am Suicide” arc shocked Batman fans by revealing a young Bruce Wayne tried to kill himself after his parents’ death. Kings’ scripts humanized characters like Kite Man, a lost soul; Riddler, a desperate, lonely shell of a person looking for purpose; and even the Joker, a petulant but jealous narcissist. Most importantly, the strands of humanity he’s put into the title are set to culminate with the impending nuptials between Batman and Catwoman. After all, what’s more relatable than love and marriage?"

    I loved what he did with Kite Man. If you can make a character out of Charles Brown, then you have ability. We need more talent that can start with jokes like Kite-Man and upgrade them to characters like Kite-Man.

    I'm also glad that the Joker is now not the 'villain that no one could become'; there was a time when Mister J was not allowed to be shown doing anything that would humanize him. He was just evil for evil's sake and an mortal embodiment of chaos. This is lousy character development.

    I also like the description of the Riddler. His new look is good too.
    I mean, I'm torn on Kite Man. Part of me wanted him to remain a joke. But part of me appreciated how he made Kite Man a kind of scary, not very admirable, but still very tragic figure. And still ridiculous. Hell yeah!

    I agree about the Joker - King's Joker, because of his frailties - his loss of humor in WoJaR, his terrible jokes in DC Nation 0, and his philosophical ramblings (which to me seemed very inspired by Ledger's portrayal) in the church - seems like a much scarier villain than making him arbitrarily plot device king.

    Riddler doesn't quite seem as lonely or desperate to me - he seems more like a bored genius type. A figure who twists his brains to proving he's the smartest - which is why I like Batman vs. Riddler, since I see that as a twisted reflection of Batman's detective ability. I am curious to see what kinds of villains King will be using going forward post-wedding. We know Mr. Freeze (which in itself will be very interesting, after Snyder's infamous turn on the origin), but does anyone think there's going to be an overarching villian, or at least a couple, like the Court and Joker were for Snyder, or Hurt and Leviathan/Talia were for Morrison? So far, there is the hints of the scientists who gave Gotham Girl and her brother her powers, and there's likely going to be some kind of rogue's alliance with Bane, Riddler, Joker, etc, since they've all been very important thematically so far. But any unifying antagonist?
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  6. #51
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,824

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    I don't buy all this Batgod talk. Why do so many people (so-called Batman fans included) want to downplay Batman's capabilities. I think he is the only A-list hero who gets criticized for being effective. I never hear people calling for Superman to be made less powerful, recently when DC said new character Damage was stronger than Supes people were pissed. No one is calling for Wonder Woman to be scaled back, if anything people want her to be more powerful than she already is. They want Flash (Barry or Wally) to be the fastest and so on.
    Oh, there's quite a few of us that call for Superman being less powerful. We are drowned out by those that insist Superman be a supreme demigod.

    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Now let's look at another human who stands alongside gods and often prevails against them, Lex Luthor. Lex is less capable than Bruce, all he has to relie on is his intelligence. Yet Lex has acomplished greats feats that rivals and in some cases surpasses Batman. He is a force to be reckoned with in the meta community despite being a mere human (look no further than Justice League #1). Yet I never hear talk of Lexgod, no one says Lex is just a mere mortal, no powers, he needs to downplayed, less effective. No that complaint is reserved for Batman.
    Lex has failed many times.

    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    And then there the argument that he needs to be humanized, whatever that means (l think give him more flaws and make him less capable). I think if King was writing Superman, Wonder Woman or any other top tier character in the same vein as he writing Batman right now fans of those characters would have the same issues as some Batman fans have with King's portrayal. I know some like King's run but I just can't understand how a Batman fan can be counted among them when this Batman is so lacking all areas. Practically playing second fiddle to Selina in his own book.
    The BatJerk has many flaws already; by the end of the 90s, I couldn't stand to read about him anymore.

  7. #52
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Swingin' Above Ya
    Posts
    9,492

    Default

    Heh, you could tell he was nervous but it was a pretty fun interview.


  8. #53
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    10,269

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Heh, you could tell he was nervous but it was a pretty fun interview.

    He was so nervous, it was kind of cute. And I love how his priorities are his wife and kids.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  9. #54
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Swingin' Above Ya
    Posts
    9,492

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    He was so nervous, it was kind of cute. And I love how his priorities are his wife and kids.
    His writing and themes are reflective of that to a great degree.

  10. #55
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    10,269

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    His writing and themes are reflective of that to a great degree.
    Probably a big reason I like them!
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  11. #56
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    10,269

    Default

    Okay, I've finally done my reread of "I Am Gotham," and I have to admit, I like it a lot more than the first time. There's still a couple of weaknesses - the Rebirth issue is an unhelpful blending of Snyder and King's styles (to me, the Calendar Man things are mostly Snyder, and the rest, with the odd structuring and very King-like dialogue, seems much more King). It doesn't do much to actually set the story King's going to tell up, but it does give us a look at Mikel Janin's take on Batman, and it's pretty gorgeous.

    I Am Gotham itself has two main flaws, in my mind. First, issue 1 uses the same emotional beats as Batman #52 - Batman seeking the approval of his dead parents - and I gotta be honest, much as I like King, Tynion is my favorite current Batman writer, and I like how he did #52 better in achieving that specific emotional effect. That being said, seeing the first story as part of the entire "I Am" story, as well as introducing a few of the themes that we're seeing now in the BatCat story, it makes a lot more sense. Plus, King's style of writing crazy Batman action works a lot more for me now that I'm used to it. Finch's art still isn't my favorite - I'm actually pretty interested in seeing how Daniel fares in the "normal" parts of this run on Batman, instead of doing the bizarre AU of The Gift. (I should add, Daniel and Finch to me always feel very much like Jim Lee students - each has their own unique spins on the layouts and specific figure drawing, but they all look like they're trying to achieve the same kind of effect - so I regard Daniel as the basic replacement for Finch, with Janin remaining as the other main pillar, and bringing in star guest artists like Joelle Jones, Mitch Gerads, and Lee Weeks - and boy am I excited about Lee Weeks!)

    The story builds effectively to the tragedy of Hank's death (though the other main flaw, the "all the serial numbers add up to 24, which is X, which means Suicide Squad" still doesn't really work for me at all). It reminds me that the story King is telling is truly huge - so huge that he's taking a massive development with BatCat from #9-50 without touching it again. The issue of where the Clovers got their powers, and what Batman is going to do about it. I'm betting that Sanctuary, since it's killing off Psycho Pirate, is going to have a significant part of the endgame for Batman as well.

    The epilogue, much as Reis's art is a bit of a change from Finch, is still as moving as I remember. Plus, the whole thing has a lot of King's dry and goofy humor - Alfred's turn as Batman especially.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  12. #57
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    tOSU
    Posts
    2,378

    Default

    I am very much interested in the topic of this thread, but I’m afraid that I don’t have much to contribute at the moment. I am very behind on this series because I have been trying to read it by “act.” Upon hearing that King’s first 24 issues would be a trilogy and after completing the first story arc, I waited until issues 1-27 were available in trade to read in one sitting. After that, I waited for trade on the War of Jokes and Riddles. Now, I’ve been waiting until issue 50, where I intend to do a full read through of the series. I’ll be sure to post my thoughts here when I’m finished.

    However in the vein more of “enjoyment” than “analysis,” I would like to add for now this series’ personal affect on me. I really, really wanted to like this run based off King’s work on Grayson and Omega Men. However, as I was initially reading through the “I am Trilogy,” I found myself somewhat disappointed by the plot despite enjoying bits and pieces of it. But my opinion of the series was completely reversed by “Every Eplilogue is a Predlude.”

    The issue itself is good, though far from the highlight of King’s run, but it struck me very personally. Reading through that issue as Gotham Girl asks Batman about his motives and whether or not he is truly happy, I both immediately understood King’s message about Batman in the previous chapters and also realized that I saw a lot of myself in King’s Batman. I asked myself the same question that Gotham Girl had asked Batman. Was I happy? And the answer was no. I realized that I had never truly reached out to anyone for emotional support or made any effort to become involved in my life socially. And as Batman made an effort to pursue happiness, so have I over the past year. I’ve become inspired to take more risks and live a little. In doing so, I’ve made some mistakes but also had many wonderful experiences as a result of the self reflection inspired by this run.

    So it’s cheesy as hell, but this run means a lot to me (despite the disappointment that was TWoJaR ) and I’m looking forward to reading issues 33-49 for the first time as well as rereading the rereading the earlier issues of the run.
    Last edited by Pohzee; 06-15-2018 at 08:57 PM.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  13. #58

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    I don't buy all this Batgod talk. Why do so many people (so-called Batman fans included) want to downplay Batman's capabilities. I think he is the only A-list hero who gets criticized for being effective. I never hear people calling for Superman to be made less powerful, recently when DC said new character Damage was stronger than Supes people were pissed. No one is calling for Wonder Woman to be scaled back, if anything people want her to be more powerful than she already is. They want Flash (Barry or Wally) to be the fastest and so on. But when it comes to Batman all you hear is he is too good, he needs to be humbled, less effective, taken down a peg. He shouldn't be recognized as on of the smartest people on earth, he shouldn't be recognized as one of the top martial artist or best detectives. Despite the fact that that he has been built up in canon for decades to be so in feats and deeds. Batman has built himself up to be the perfect human through intense training and dedication to be able to stand alongside gods. And any so-called Batgod feats he has achieved he has earned, and none of them came easily. Now let's look at another human who stands alongside gods and often prevails against them, Lex Luthor. Lex is less capable than Bruce, all he has to relie on is his intelligence. Yet Lex has acomplished greats feats that rivals and in some cases surpasses Batman. He is a force to be reckoned with in the meta community despite being a mere human (look no further than Justice League #1). Yet I never hear talk of Lexgod, no one says Lex is just a mere mortal, no powers, he needs to downplayed, less effective. No that complaint is reserved for Batman. And then there the argument that he needs to be humanized, whatever that means (l think give him more flaws and make him less capable). I think if King was writing Superman, Wonder Woman or any other top tier character in the same vein as he writing Batman right now fans of those characters would have the same issues as some Batman fans have with King's portrayal. I know some like King's run but I just can't understand how a Batman fan can be counted among them when this Batman is so lacking all areas. Practically playing second fiddle to Selina in his own book.
    The thing that annoys me the most about Batgod complaints is definitely the hypocriscy. Whenever anyone says Superman should be less powerful some defend his strength by saying it's up to the writers to put him in situations that challenge him, that making him weaker isn't the answer. But Batman essentially being the human version of Superman somehow makes him a less human, relatable character. Using their argument instead of lessening Bruce's abilities shouldn't it be up to the writers to make a "OP Batgod" interesting.

    Like you said no one ever complains that Lex is too smart and thus a less flawed, human character. If Bruce needs to be "human" and less ott in his abilities than all human characters need to be. Lex, Black Panther (basically Marvel's Batman), Iron Man, Dr. Doom, etc. People only complain about Bruce having unrealistic feats for some reason.

  14. #59
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    3,004

    Default

    I don't care what anyone else says about Batgod, whether they like it or not, and whether it has anything to do with other heroes or not.

    My reason is that I don't want him to be the person that has all the solution, or being able to do things simply because "I'm Batman" or being able to get away with all the jerk things he does like punching his kids because he's grieving or whatever. I don't want him to have 137-450 martial art mastery.

    Every character should pick one specialty and that's it.

    Batman's title is the world's greatest detective, and that should be it. He can still be a great martial artist or engineer, but leave the title greatest to someone else. He can't be great at everything. Also, give me a logical solution to mystery and superhero fights. Plant hints, but don't pull tricks out of nowhere.

    Basically, don't tell me he's human if he can do superhuman feats, don't let him get away for being a jerk if he wants my respect and don't let him bypass storytelling problems if he doesn't want me to call him Mary Sue. This goes for every character.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 06-15-2018 at 10:36 PM.

  15. #60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I don't care what anyone else says about Batgod, whether they like it or not, and whether it has anything to do with other heroes or not.

    My reason is that I don't want him to be the person that has all the solution, or being able to do things simply because "I'm Batman" or being able to get away with all the jerk things he does like punching his kids because he's grieving or whatever. I don't want him to have 137-450 martial art mastery.

    Every character should pick one specialty and that's it.

    Batman's title is the world's greatest detective, and that should be it. He can still be a great martial artist or engineer, but leave the title greatest to someone else. He can't be great at everything. Also, give me a logical solution to mystery and superhero fights. Plant hints, but don't pull tricks out of nowhere.

    Basically, don't tell me he's human if he can do superhuman feats, don't let him get away for being a jerk if he wants my respect and don't let him bypass storytelling problems if he doesn't want me to call him Mary Sue. This goes for every character.
    Yeah but there's also the opposite to him being a jerk to those around him where Batfamily members are constantly crapping on him, berating him and being made out to be better than him. There's a reason a lot of fans have a problem with Detective and it's because they feel it's become the "Batman sucks and the writers pet Batfamily member is better" book. That's the reason I can't stand books where he's with the Batfamily because I know he's going to be portrayed as some villainous A hole who some precious little Batfamily member is going to put in his place.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •