King Batman Run: Analysis and Enjoyment Thread

[lilyrose]

I think there was an error in this. Bruce didn't go on that trip with Booster Gold, did he? The only Bruce that was in that was the one who killed himself at the end. Booster was telling both Batman and Catwoman what happened in the alt universe.

[Inversed]

After reading the issue, even with the giant explanation, I have to admit I still don't a hundred percent buy Bane being in this amount of control. A lot of just seems to use the easy answer of "I know him so well I knew exactly how he would react" and based on all the actual events that had gone on, still kind of feels a bit flimsy all put together.

Despite that, I do like the message and kind of overall theme of the issue, that Bane took advantage of Batman's predictability and emphasis on theatrics as the way of manipulating him, as a way of proving he's not "the best" like he's always saying. Plus I think this could be seen as some kind of statement on the concept of "Batgod", when a Batman has contingency plan after contingency plan appearing too perfect, and here we have Batman facing off against a threat that is LITERALLY too perfect and manipulative that it could plausibly make sense.

That's why at this point, I'm more interested than ever to see how the story concludes and how he ends up winning (because we all know of course he's gonna win in the end). Since we also know this isn't going to end with simple fist and cuffs, he's gonna have to be outsmarted, and they set up such an "all-seeing" threat it's intriguing to see where they can go to shut him down.

Since given the reveal of the Batman/Catwoman book, it feels like almost a certainty that the "helping hand" for Batman as mentioned in the solicits is Selina, so I could see them working together again is what ends up bringing Bane's plan down, since it would act as the complete backfire of his own plan, he brought them together, but only ended up making their bond stronger.

[lilyrose]

Since given the reveal of the Batman/Catwoman book, it feels like almost a certainty that the "helping hand" for Batman as mentioned in the solicits is Selina, so I could see them working together again is what ends up bringing Bane's plan down, since it would act as the complete backfire of his own plan, he brought them together, but only ended up making their bond stronger.

This seems like it has to be the solution. Because some of that stuff is really lucky guesswork on Bane's part. Like, how did he KNOW that Batman would end up proposing if he and Catwoman were to team up again? He's not monitoring their relationship day to day and they've known each other for years by now. Also he couldn't KNOW that Selina was going to listen to the Joker and Holly to the point where she would for sure leave him. I mean all they had to do was have a talk about this and the whole plan would be blown to hell (like I'm guessing is going to happen now? They reunite, realize they've been manipulated and immediately get back together and take him down?)

It's not exactly the most foolproof plan.

[Arsenal]

I think it could’ve worked a bit better if it was presented in a way where Bane’s plan had a starting point (Batman Vol. 1) and an endpoint (City of Bane) but evolved and changed as it went along. Maybe some of his plans work and others don’t. Or some parts work but not in the way he anticipated while other parts backfired and he had to readjust with his new circumstances (such as ending in Arkham). It might’ve felt a bit more natural if it was presented like that instead of every thing we’ve read up to this point being Bane’s will.

[Pohzee]

For whose sake was Bane acting during I Am Suicide both at the beginning and the end when neither Batman nor Catwoman were there?

[Chubistian]

I need more insight about how each thing worked out. How much control did Bane had over Batman's proposal? How helpful were Joker, Riddler and Hugo Strange in breaking into Batman's psyche? There're still some answers to be solved, like what does Bane has on Holly and this is still Thomas' theory (but I don't think he isn't right), but I need more insight in how the plan was crafted and just how much Bane improvised in the way. Because if Bane did know that Bruce would propose to Selina, it's a stretch, though Gotham Girl was a big influence convincing Batman to overcome his fears and ask Catwoman to marry him. I think the elements exist, I would just like more info about them. And Thomas or Tom King (depending on how the story unfolds) made a mistake about Booster's role in Bane's plans, since he never took Bruce to the alternative continuity.

The issue itself, serves as a nice parallel to Batman #20, changing Martha for Flashpoint Thomas, and as a recap issue, which have been part of the run since a long time, I think to keep the bi-weekly schedule. The story itself works as a contrast to Knightfall; in Knightall, Bane's plan is pretty simple (and the most famous part of it was thought by Bird, who came up with the idea of breaking the inmates of Arkham Asylum loose), while now Bane's plan is so complicated and attacks Bruce in such an unimaginable way that it's proving to be even more effective.

Visually, Jorge Fornes keeps maintening a high standard with some really neat choreography and that style that truly shows two human beings that, as trained as they're, are far away from those superheroes lurking in the sky. Mikel Janín sometimes is awesome, but this issue is one of those cases where his 3D modeling just shows up way too much and takes me away from the comic, especially with the "Everyone loves Ivy" double splash page, because I'm pretty sure that image of Batman and Catwoman kissing is from the same layouts than the regular cover of Batman #50. He does render some cool drawings anyway, like Bane surrounded by Arkham inmates.

Overall, I think this is one of those issues that gain a lot when collected but that as an "standalone" comic leaves you unsatisfied

[lilyrose]

The thing is, not one person ever told Bruce or encouraged or hinted to him that he should marry Selina or that he should get married in general. He apparently kept her stolen diamond from the day he met her, so that was all on him. I don't see how Bane could have KNOWN that that would happen.

And the comments made to Selina by Joker and Holly weren't heavy-handed enough for him to know that's all it would take for her to leave him. For one, it depends on her caring an awful lot about Gotham itself, which I don't see how he could know. And also, if she and Bruce just talked about this even once, they could have dealt with it fairly quickly I bet.

I think he COULD have had a plan to make this happen, but the events that were counted on had to happen in exactly the right way and the actions to prod them weren't very big.

[Chubistian]

The thing is, not one person ever told Bruce or encouraged or hinted to him that he should marry Selina or that he should get married in general. He apparently kept her stolen diamond from the day he met her, so that was all on him. I don't see how Bane could have KNOWN that that would happen.

And the comments made to Selina by Joker and Holly weren't heavy-handed enough for him to know that's all it would take for her to leave him. For one, it depends on her caring an awful lot about Gotham itself, which I don't see how he could know. And also, if she and Bruce just talked about this even once, they could have dealt with it fairly quickly I bet.

I think he COULD have had a plan to make this happen, but the events that were counted on had to happen in exactly the right way and the actions to prod them weren't very big.

I think Catwoman's decision to leave Bruce works as something planned (though something that still could've gone wrong) if we take into considerations Booster's creation of a world without Batman and how that went, Joker's words to Selina and Holly, her best friend, advicing her of the same thing two other people had already hinted at her, that the marriage would be the end of Batman and, inevitably, the end of Gotham. Could Bruce be Batman if he's happy? I think he can, and I think Tom King thinks the same and that his run is a path for Bruce and Selina to realize it (independently if they marry or not)

Where do you people think this issue happened? I'm pretty sure the fight ocurred between the events of last issue, just after Bane delivered a punch to Batman and before Alfred helped Bruce getting up

[Inversed]

For whose sake was Bane acting during I Am Suicide both at the beginning and the end when neither Batman nor Catwoman were there?

Yeah, that's the biggest question mark for me. Because there's the point at the beginning when he's talking with just the Psycho Pirate where it makes it seem like he just wants him to cure his venom, and then at the very end when he's freaking out after they escape. Unless it is a massive cheat, it doesn't seem like that was part of his plan.

What I thought happened, and made the most sense, was that Bane's initial plan didn't involve Catwoman at all, but instead was all focused on Gotham Girl and the Psycho Pirate, giving Batman the hope for a successor, tearing it down, and then luring him to his island where Bane could defeat him, only for him to be outsmarted by Batman and Catwoman. It would then be at this point that he came up with "I Am Bane" plan where, with the "let himself be captured in Arkham" plan as his backup if he lost.

The thing is, not one person ever told Bruce or encouraged or hinted to him that he should marry Selina or that he should get married in general. He apparently kept her stolen diamond from the day he met her, so that was all on him. I don't see how Bane could have KNOWN that that would happen.

I think the issue is trying to insinuate that the Joker and Riddler told Bane about Batman's weakness (after what he did during War Of Jokes And Riddles) and in the process also told him about his affection for Catwoman, and then because Bane "knows Batman better than anyone" he knew exactly what buttons he needed to push in order to push them more together, which is still all very much a stretch.

There is also the major element we're forgetting is that, it was probably Thomas more than anyone else that was the major linchpin in getting Bruce to propose to Selina, to try and make himself happy. And based on all the information from this issue, Bane did in fact have nothing to do with that encounter. King also clarified on Twitter that the conversation Thomas is having with Bane throughout the issue is happening on the day of the Wedding, so it's clear that he was a late addition to his plan, and so throws other questions into the air.

[Vordan]

Literally everything that happened being Bane’s plan is godawful writing. How did Bane know how a world without Batman would turn out for example? And if Bruce kicking his ass was all “according to keikaku” why the hell is he DOING this? He pretended to retire and wean himself off Venom just so Bruce would come and fight him? That’s so stupid.

I’m not a King hater. But this reveal just seems lazy to me.

[Coco Loco]

Where do you people think this issue happened? I'm pretty sure the fight ocurred between the events of last issue, just after Bane delivered a punch to Batman and before Alfred helped Bruce getting up

I have some thoughts on that. The Janin-illustrated scenes definitely “happened” as they are mostly flashbacks, but perhaps the Fornes scenes are meant to be allegorical rather than literal? This would explain why Alfred in particular has been acting weird, and possibly why no one other than Bruce seems to “see” Bane out of Arkham.

[Talon1load]

Does no one else have an issue with how King has to clarify his writing on Twitter after EVERY issue? That’s not good writing. Makes you wonder how writers let people know what the meant before Twitter. Oh, that’s right, they wrote clear and coherent stories.

[Pohzee]

Does no one else have an issue with how King has to clarify his writing on Twitter after EVERY issue? That’s not good writing. Makes you wonder how writers let people know what the meant before Twitter. Oh, that’s right, they wrote clear and coherent stories.

I understood what happened in this issue and when perfectly well. Methinks some people need to do more attentive reading.

[Coco Loco]

I understood what happened in this issue and when perfectly well.

Yea it explicitly says that Thomas’ monologue is occurring on the day of the wedding. The timing of the fight is more ambiguous I guess.

[Arsenal]

According to King’s twitter, his big once in a generation change to Batman is still happening.