King Batman Run: Analysis and Enjoyment Thread

[gregpersons]

Batman/Elmer Fudd: A great crossover that ended up being so much more that what one expects from this type of book. Also, Lee Weeks showed why he deserved a spot on Batman's main title

I almost forgot about this one! One of the best showcases for King and Weeks. An all-time classic coming from the most unexpected place -- A looney tunes crossover. So great.

They need to include it in one of the King Batman trades (like they did with "Good Boy" but not all of Annual #1).

[millernumber1]

I will leave my thoughts of every arc, just for fun hahaha

I Am Gotham - Rebirth + 1-6: Not the best of begginings, but it does gain points for introducing concepts that would end up becoming important pillars in the overall run

Night of the Monster Men: I don't count it as part of King's run, since it was mostly Orlando's work. I can't say I'm a fan of the concept nor the execution, though it could've been much worse

I Am Suicide - 9-13: It was the arc that finally made me interested in King's run. I love the concepts it plays with and how it does it, but some things could've been work out better

Annual #1 - Good Boy: A fun little story. I liked it and as feels pretty unique as a Batman story.

Rooftops - 14-15: The first time we see King really playing with old continuity for real. Building a love story in years of history and stories between two characters instead of just doing it with recent material was a great decission

I Am Bane - 16-20: I love Bane, so seeing a writer treating him as King did is always welcome. I like the Bat burger joint and how you could feel the fear and danger that Bane's presence exuded, even when we weren't seeing him. The fight was great, and so was the talk between Bruce and his mother (an idea mentioned in Batman #6, by King, Reis, Prado and Maiolo). Also, seeing Batman pull a reverse Knightfall on Bane was awesome

The Button - 21-22: Good fanservice, but not much thing to work on

Brave and the Mold - 23: Another King/Gerads win

Aftermath - 24: I think Gotham Girl was given too much weight in Batman's decission, but taking the previous stories of the run into account, it makes sense.

War of Jokes and Riddles - 25-32: Once I understood it wasn't about the war, but about how Bruce's felt about it and the decission of Selina, this story became much more enjoyable. And Kite Man's interludes were amazing

Rules of Engagement - 33-35: I enjoyed this more than I thought I would. It also made me a Joelle Jones' fan.

Annual #2 - Date Nights/Last Rites: The idea of not just looking to the past, but also to the future, was super effective. It hit all the right elements

Superfriends - 36-37: This is how you do a Batman and Superman story!!! Also, a Catwoman and Lois Lane Story! Instead of just having Batman and Superman fight, King showed us why they are real friends. Though I'm not against having a Batman v Superman story once in a while.

The Origin of Bruce Wayne - 38: I could see the twist coming, but it was nicely done.

Superfriends part 2 - 39-40: WW's part wasn't as good, but the interactions between characters were fun and I had more dosis of Joelle Jones art. In the Supes' part, we had Clay Mann and Seth Mann, and in both parts Jordie Bellaire's colors iirc, so artistically both stories were a win

Everyone Loves Ivy - 41-43: I like it conceptually, and the end was pretty emotional, but I didn't feel like the reboot was needed, some plots were left hanging in the air and it felt too much on the nose about King "rectifying" what he did in WoJaR

Bride or Burglar - 44: A nice trip down memory lane, even to someone who hadn't read the stories it referenced, like me. Selina choosing her dress was amazingly rendered by Joelle

The Gift - 45-47: Just a fun and over the top story, not meant to be taking seriously, though dealing with some serious topics, as most of King's work does.

The Best Man - 48-49: A great philosophycal talk by Joker and a debate between Selina and Joker abouto who is Batman and if he can be happy or happiness would be his end

I will also add

Batman/Elmer Fudd: A great crossover that ended up being so much more that what one expects from this type of book. Also, Lee Weeks showed why he deserved a spot on Batman's main title

DC Nation #0: A frightening story with Joker. An astonishing prelude to "The Best Man"

I mentioned some of the artist who had work on the title, but really, everyone deserves an applause. This book has been looking great since day 1 of Rebirth

Nice work! This is the kind of thing I like to see in the thread.

Agree that I Am Gotham looks a lot better as you see what it's setting up. I'm not sure how I feel about writing, not for the trade, but for the run, and leaving some weaknesses in both individual issues and in whole arcs, but it is kind of how King works, so if you don't like it, you don't. (Night of the Monster Men was such a waste of great art. But I freely admit that I just don't like giant monster and robot stories.) I Am Suicide definitely made me sit up and take notice with its first issue, but yeah, it kinda falls apart in the end - but! It still sets up important things!

I'm going to be contrarian (as always) and say that maybe because I just don't like dogs, but Good Boy, while fine, doesn't really do anything for me. I know, I'm a horrible person.

Rooftops was gorgeous - the art, of course, but the coloring was really lovely. And the way it played with image and words is just so poetic.

I would say that The Button doesn't really have much to do with King's run (despite him trying to work it in), except for the first issue. But I like the craft he and Fabok put into it!

Brave and the Mold, though - that was a punch in the gut. Amazing work.

The Kite Man stuff was definitely the highlight of War of Jokes and Riddles, but I still mourn the loss of it as a 12-issue miniseries.

I don't know how you could go through Rules of Engagement without becoming a Jones fan! It's so gorgeous!

Origin of Bruce Wayne felt too much like an Elementary (the Sherlock Holmes television show) episode. And maybe knowing that they stuck it in there to give the art teams time to finish their stories influences my reading of it too much.

Both Everyone Loves Ivy and The Gift now feel much more like a backdoor pilot for Heroes in Crisis. Hopefully they also have greater relevance to the Batman story. I'm really impressed, at this point, that King is juggling so many balls. You have Batman twice a month, Mister Miracle, Heroes in Crisis, one-shots for DC Nation and Action 1000, and now his Superman story for Walmart. That's not Bendis levels of prolific, but it's a lot.

I would like to promote this article: http://thebatmanuniverse.net/batman-176/ - it lays out all the Batman #44 references!

I was really impressed with The Best Man arc - some really brutal violence, punctuating some really interesting explorations of Batman and marriage.

And as befits DC's best selling book, the art has been really strong on every issue from day one.

[Chubistian]

I've always been in a dicotomy when it comes to Batman's plan in I Am Suicide, especially in #13. I get that, in order to bring Psycho Pirate out of his hide, Catwoman had to play traitor, leaving everyone in place to fulfill a very specific role, as if they were chess pieces. But Bronze Tiger felt replaceable, anyone could have knocked out the ventriloquist, he was part of the plan because he had a never before seen addiction to venom, that I would like further explored, and his conections to the league of assasins, but he wasn't as fundamental as other team members. The other thing that I don't know how to feel about is the bag the ventriloquist was carrying. I concluded that in it he was transporting Scarface, not the physical puppet, but the idea of it, that's why he makes the act of taking something out of the bag before "transforming" his hand into Scarface. I like the idea, but it could have had a deeper development.

Something I downright disliked, was Batman letting himself get beaten and, once Catwoman takes out Bane, he just stands at Bane's side as if nothing had happened to his body. In I Am Bane, Bane beat Batman by mere strenght, but not because Batman wanted (though it served as a distraction so Catwoman could rescue the hostages), and we saw the consequences of that beating in issue #19, with Alfred patching him up

[millernumber1]

I've always been in a dicotomy when it comes to Batman's plan in I Am Suicide, especially in #13. I get that, in order to bring Psycho Pirate out of his hide, Catwoman had to play traitor, leaving everyone in place to fulfill a very especif role, as if they were chess pieces. But Bronze Tiger felt replaceable, anyone could have knocked out the ventriloquist, he was part of the plan because he had a never before seen addiction to venom, that I would like further explored, and his conections to the league of assasins, but he wasn't as fundamental as other team members. The other thing that I don't know how to feel about is the bag the ventriloquist was carrying. I concluded that there he was transporting Scarface, not the physical puppet, but the idea of it, that's why he makes the act of taking something out of the bag before "transforming" his hand into Scarface. I like the idea, but it could have had a deeper development.

Something I downright disliked, was Batman letting himself get beaten and, once Catwoman takes out Bane, he just stands at Bane's side as if nothing had happened to his body. In I Am Bane, Bane beat Batman by mere strenght, not because Batman wanted (though it served as a distraction so Catwoman could rescue the hostages), and we saw the consequences of that beating in issue #19, with Alfred patching him up

My biggest problem with I Am Suicide is the letters. I understand what King is doing in terms of form, but I don't think it helps the plausibility of his plan at all. Also, starting it with the back breaking/fixing scene really didn't work for me. That being said, I love the fact that Batman is doing a literally suicidal thing, with his own Suicide Squad, and is, in some sense, kind of a villain. He's unable to ask Bane if he can bring Claire to Santa Prisca for five days, or some other diplomatic solution. So he makes Bane righteously angry at himself in a plan that is beyond crazy - but it works.

So yes, I do think the "I Am" trilogy is very flawed, but there's so much good stuff in there I think it's still overall worthwhile.

[WonderScott]

So, I finally got around to reading #49 and really enjoyed it. It reminded me, that despite being arguably part of the holy quadrumvirate of "Batman" (Batman, Robin, Joker, and Catwoman [sorry Harley!]), we've comparatively had very little Joker and Catwoman interplay over the years. I'd love to see more of their relationship develop, considering their importance in the mythology.

As with all of King's run, I enjoy his assertion in their conversation that all the villains have had run-ins and prior relationships (some we never knew about) with each other throughout the course of their villainous careers. It adds such richness to those characters and Gotham.

The Joker tends to be thought of and positioned as "The" Batman adversary, so I was happy to see King assert and demonstrate that Selina and Joker share equal ground in relation to Batman. It's especially refreshing to hear Selina's take on the Joker and have her own philosophy based on other villain's ideas (e.g. Nygma's assessment of Joker's mental and emotional state.) Based on the story being told, I didn't expect anything less for Catwoman's stature in the villainy hierarchy.

The ambiguity of the result of their encounter is delicious as it leads up to #50. In my mind's eye, both Catwoman and Joker won this round, through obviously through very different means. She's won. But, what has she won? The pressure is squarely on Selina regarding what she's going to do with this information gained through conflict and pain and honesty. It forces her into the knightrix role, clad in ebony and ivory silk, to save and rescue her Dark Prince stuck in his tower. The strict and tempered Batman has opened up to the possibility of happiness, but it's the nebulous and more emotional Catwoman who's met him where he's at and ebbed and flowed around the directions he's emotionally gone to support him.

Selina's been considered selfish and out-for-herself in the past. That's changed a bit, but will this encounter push her to finally be a self-sacrificing hero? Will the ultimate metatextual fairytale "will they or won't they" romance of our age finally play out? So many interesting questions and I can't wait to find out how it plays out.

I think I'll be surprised by whatever happens at the wedding and be able to accept it - but will see. I haven't placed any bets, yet. I'm still pondering where Selina's at at this penultimate moment and considering where she started when this romance and relationship first got real. There has got to be some clues in the journey. We rarely stay the same as where we started, unless fear, hate, or other strong emotions stunt us.

[millernumber1]

So, I finally got around to reading #49 and really enjoyed it. It reminded me, that despite being arguably part of the holy quadrumvirate of "Batman" (Batman, Robin, Joker, and Catwoman [sorry Harley!]), we've comparatively had very little Joker and Catwoman interplay over the years. I'd love to see more of their relationship develop, considering their importance in the mythology.

As with all of King's run, I enjoy his assertion in their conversation that all the villains have had run-ins and relationships (some we never knew about) with each other throughout the course of the villainous careers.

The Joker tends to be thought of and positioned as "The" Batman adversary, so I was happy to see King assert that Selina and Joker share equal ground in relation to Batman. It's especially refreshing to hear Selina's take on the Joker and own philosophy based on other villain's ideas (e.g. Nygma's assessment of Joker's mental and emotional state.) Based on the story being told, I didn't expect anything less.

The ambiguity of the result of their encounter is delicious as it leads up to #50. In my mind's eye, both Catwoman and Joker won this round, through obviously very different means. She's won. But, what has she won? The pressure is squarely on Selina regarding what she's going to do with this information gained through conflict and pain and honesty. It forces her into the knightrix role, clad in ebony and ivory silk, to save and rescue her Dark Prince stuck in his tower.

Selina's been considered selfish and out-for-herself in the past. Will this encounter push her to finally be a self-sacrificing hero? Will the ultimate metatextual fairytale "will they or won't they" romance of our age finally play out? So many interesting questions and I can't wait to find out.

I think I'll be surprised by whatever happens and be able to accept it - but will see. I haven't placed any bets, yet. I'm still pondering where Selina's at at this penultimate moment and considering where she started when this romance and relationship first got real.

Very nice writeup - you capture most of what I thought in reaction, only much better! There is so much ambiguity and excitement - I just hope King doesn't do the obvious "tragic" route.

[The Dying Detective]

Very nice writeup - you capture most of what I thought in reaction, only much better! There is so much ambiguity and excitement - I just hope King doesn't do the obvious "tragic" route.

We have two issues to go on that one I hope so too because it's been a lot effort that shouldn't go to waste.

[WonderScott]

Very nice writeup - you capture most of what I thought in reaction, only much better! There is so much ambiguity and excitement - I just hope King doesn't do the obvious "tragic" route.

If it is tragic, it better be "tragic with a twist!"

I'm a BatCat shipper, so I'm devoted to exploring what marriage might look like for them and their individual conflicts within a relationship. There's so much "new" to mine there story-wise, that I really want to see that happen. (Especially Selina's place amongst all the Robins and Bat-women sidekicks and partners.)

That said, I'm open to surprises if it doesn't work out as I imagine. A traditional marriage might not be for them and that might usher in some storytelling opportunities I haven't considered yet.

[WonderScott]

We have two issues to go on that one I hope so too because it's been a lot effort that shouldn't go to waste.

I feel that way too, more about the opportunity that it presents, but there's part of me that's open to a surprise twist if it's well done and puts Bruce and Selina on a new trajectory.

I'm really looking forward to #50 and Catwoman #1 to see what happens and where we go from here.

[The Dying Detective]

I feel that way too, more about the opportunity that it presents, but there's part of me that's open to a surprise twist if it's well done and puts Bruce and Selina on a new trajectory.

I'm really looking forward to #50 and Catwoman #1 to see what happens and where we go from here.

I'm open to seeing something good come out and to see if Selina truly love Bruce because if she does well she would not care for what the Joker said he can still be Batman and be happy the issue is that some writers just want to write the Batjerk sometimes.

[millernumber1]

If it is tragic, it better be "tragic with a twist!"

I'm a BatCat shipper, so I'm devoted to exploring what marriage might look like for them and their individual conflicts within a relationship. There's so much "new" to mine there story-wise, that I really want to see that happen. (Especially Selina's place amongst all the Robins and Bat-women sidekicks and partners.)

That said, I'm open to surprises if it doesn't work out as I imagine. A traditional marriage might not be for them and that might usher in some storytelling opportunities I haven't considered yet.

I feel that way too, more about the opportunity that it presents, but there's part of me that's open to a surprise twist if it's well done and puts Bruce and Selina on a new trajectory.

I'm really looking forward to #50 and Catwoman #1 to see what happens and where we go from here.

Agreed. King says it's something we haven't seen before, and I'm like...then it better not be "they break up," because we have Hush for that. I agree that a Batmarriage would be a really fascinating place for new stories, and I'm really excited if that's the route we're taking. I just want it not to be a repeat of Hush. Or Hush only Catwoman rejects Batman instead of the other way round.

Whatever happens, I'll be waiting on tenterhooks for the next week!

[The Dying Detective]

Agreed. King says it's something we haven't seen before, and I'm like...then it better not be "they break up," because we have Hush for that. I agree that a Batmarriage would be a really fascinating place for new stories, and I'm really excited if that's the route we're taking. I just want it not to be a repeat of Hush. Or Hush only Catwoman rejects Batman instead of the other way round.

Whatever happens, I'll be waiting on tenterhooks for the next week!

I'm really curious as to how King is going to play out their domestic home life if they do get married as Selina will be off doing her own thing so will Bruce.

[JasonTodd428]

I'm really curious as to how King is going to play out their domestic home life if they do get married as Selina will be off doing her own thing so will Bruce.

Yeah, I'm curious about how King's planning to handle that myself. I think it will be interesting though and I'm really looking forward to seeing what a Batmarriage looks like. I'm with millernumber1 in that I'm going to be anxiously awaiting this issue in particular but I'm also with WonderScott in that I'm also open to some kind of surprise twist here. Having said that though I really do hope the marriage happens. I've been a Bat/Cat shipper for literally decades so it would be nice to see some resolution to decades of 'will they/won't they' for once.

*also as an aside I'm glad this post exists.

[The Dying Detective]

Yeah, I'm curious about how King's planning to handle that myself. I think it will be interesting though and I'm really looking forward to seeing what a Batmarriage looks like. I'm with millernumber1 in that I'm going to be anxiously awaiting this issue in particular but I'm also with WonderScott in that I'm also open to some kind of surprise twist here. Having said that though I really do hope the marriage happens. I've been a Bat/Cat shipper for literally decades so it would be nice to see some resolution to decades of 'will they/won't they' for once.

*also as an aside I'm glad this post exists.

Well so do since marriage will be the closest thing to progress in Batman's love life in decades if you don't count Earth 2. And i'm glad I made your day.

[WonderScott]

I mean if they end up both being clones made by Doctor Double X and the real Batman and Catwoman crash the wedding, I’m going to be really UPSET.