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  1. #436
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    The Comedian never had anything that set him apart like the Clown and the Criminal. He was just the Joker. So of course that's the only way to make him relevant to the story. Despite being the least interesting. And none of the main characters come across great here.

    Just thinking aloud here, but if Batman knows who the Comedian is, then he knows when he was first active. Which means that he should be able to definitively answer the question of which Joker came first between the Comedian and the Criminal. So I don't think that the ending is at all ambiguous. If the Killing Joke origin is intact, and it is to some extent, then the Criminal does not have a role in the Comedian's creation. For this reason, I agree with PurpleGlovez take that the Comedian is the one true Joker and perhaps always has been. Though this would make the purpose for the three Jokers in the story largely superfluous to Joker's plan with Joe Chill.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  2. #437
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Why, why, why do they do this crap? It doesn't do Jason any favors, and certainly doesn't do Barbara any. So now it's Bruce, Dick, Tim, and now Jason (in various media). I mean, this isn't the first leanings that way, it's just so irritating.
    She's an attractive girl who had a guy make a move on her an she turned him down. It really doesn't affect Babs

  3. #438
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Yikes.

    I really hope as little as possible from Three Jokers will be canon in the future.

    With that and the upcoming Bat/Cat book, it does seem like Batman's grat graphic novel/maxi series won't be great this year and the next...

  4. #439
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    She's an attractive girl who had a guy make a move on her an she turned him down. It really doesn't affect Babs
    She was the one who went in for the kiss. Obviously she eventually turned him down but the fact that it happened in the first place is bizarre.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  5. #440
    Mighty Member Godzilla2099's Avatar
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    Kind of confused with this whole thing.

    Now we have the comedian that's left. What did the comedian think he accomplished? He didn't do jack crap in my books. Barbara had a horrible experience but in the end she came out stronger. Bruce now has closure from his parent's death. This Joker seems more like an itch than actual pain. And he was actually the first Joker? I figured the Criminal would be.

    What 'feats' did the clown and criminal accomplish?

    I feel the recent Death in the Family Movie did a much better job at this.


    spoilers:
    However, I enjoyed seeing the end with the comedian's family and how they have a happy ending.
    end of spoilers
    Last edited by Godzilla2099; 10-27-2020 at 10:50 AM.

  6. #441
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    She's an attractive girl who had a guy make a move on her an she turned him down. It really doesn't affect Babs
    In a meta sense, regardless of her actions, linking her romantically (even in terms of unrequited feelings or just shipteasing the audience) with dad and three of the four brothers does not serve the character well.

  7. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    In a meta sense, regardless of her actions, linking her romantically (even in terms of unrequited feelings or just shipteasing the audience) with dad and three of the four brothers does not serve the character well.
    I don't know why Barbara should affected by this, especially considering only two brothers could be considered in comics continuity.

  8. #443
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    I don't know why Barbara should affected by this, especially considering only two brothers could be considered in comics continuity.
    Comics continuity does not really matter in this case. What matters is that we got bunch of writers thinking that Barbara should be romantically involved with the entire Batfamily.

  9. #444
    Mind Controller Arnoldoaad's Avatar
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    Not sure if soe had made this point already but here it goes:
    if he knew...

    Why ask Metron's chair for Joker's true Identity?

    kind of a big plot hole that makes me think that maybe things might had been rewritten at some point

    but that being said, I liked this as a whole a lot

  10. #445
    Astonishing Member Nite-Wing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Comics continuity does not really matter in this case. What matters is that we got bunch of writers thinking that Barbara should be romantically involved with the entire Batfamily.
    and she has for most of her history
    she was introduced having a crush on Bruce and that got adapted into batman 66, BTAS, The killing joke movie and Batman Beyond
    she has a relationship with dick that has been touched on as amicable exes in almost everything aside from the above instances
    she has a sort of crush on Jason in the comics now
    she only married tim in arkham knight but that's barely tim and more of an amalgamation of all robins turned into space marine tim alpha male


    This isn't even the biggest issue with the story
    This whole series was a nothing burger if Batman always knew who Joker was then why is he trying to pull on the mystery aspect of this story

  11. #446
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoldoaad View Post
    Not sure if soe had made this point already but here it goes:
    if he knew...

    Why ask Metron's chair for Joker's true Identity?

    kind of a big plot hole that makes me think that maybe things might had been rewritten at some point

    but that being said, I liked this as a whole a lot
    Johns said during DC Fandome that they were scrapping that part since they wanted a more grounded story.

  12. #447
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    I read this and I liiiiiiiked it and it did somewhat redeem the first two issues lack of being necessary for me. And I don't have a ton of thoughts about the ending kind of literally just being like "ahahaha even within the plot of the comic itself the last two issues go nowhere and weren't necessary!" because actually that's the sort of thing I do think the Joker would find funny. Even things like Jason's unrequited crush going nowhere and what-not.

    But man, there weren't really THREE JOKERS, were there? So what the HELL was the Mobius Chair talking about? And Batman low-key investigating this in the background of Rebirth-era stuff has just been ... him being curious what the Joker is up to?

    I'll check out this topic and everyone else's thoughts while I'm reflecting.
    Retro315 no more. Anonymity is so 2005.
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  13. #448
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    She was the one who went in for the kiss. Obviously she eventually turned him down but the fact that it happened in the first place is bizarre.
    Oh my bad. i thought he made the move 1st

  14. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    So just to be sure the clown is the one who killed Jason right?
    Not necessarily?

    Since it's all unreliable we can presume that maybe Joker ... uh, Real Joker (Comedian, sic.) talking about Criminal "creating him" or Batman's supposition that they were made to hide the original's identity ... could be the closest thing to true, so it's possible that "Real Joker", actually created Criminal back in the early days and some of the Golden Age Joker appearances were his double ... and then same story in the Silver Age, he created another double back in the Silver Age for similar purposes, and some Silver Age shenanigans were that guy playing the part while the real Joker laid low.

    A big evil guy, a comic bad guy, using body doubles is tropish but works. I mean it puts Joker in company with like, Hitler and Cobra Commander and other really bad bad guys. So it's possible that the Clown was doubling as Joker in Bialya/Iran or wherever in the Death in the Family days and did indeed kill Jason. Or that guy was hiding out in the suburban Joker Enclave with the original body double "Criminal" and Joker has only just pulled him out of retirement.

    Which kind of leads to my first thought after reading the ending here, where I was asking the question of "What's the inciting incident here? What's the motivation or motive for the actual story actually happening?"

    And it seems to be ... Joker (Comedian, "True Joker") who knows perfectly well who Batman is because he has in-continuity for a while now ... finds out that Joe Chill is repentant and about to DIE in Blackgate and ... pulls his two old body double accomplices out of retirement to play a weird dumb game with Batman where he actually ... gives Batman catharsis and closure with Joe Chill ... gives Jason Todd the chance to have his revenge ... but doesn't give Babs any closure because ... well I mean, she's already gotten closure in the comics over the years.

    So Joker does a good deed for the Bat-Family on the eve of Joe Chill's dying of cancer ... although his good deed still involves A. Mass murder and B. Killing off a bunch of old henchmen because COME ON those are the hallmarks of a Classic Joker Caper!
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  15. #450
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    Second two cents;

    This story plotting isn't great. You can't tell a mystery story with no mystery payoffs. I'd hoped for some wild things. Dumb wild things, but things that would justify the plot. Like I kinda hoped Johns would retell the Thomas and Martha Wayne Murders by incorporating Batman '89 into it and having "Jack" be there WITH Chill in the alley, like they were friends. I assumed that would be the Comedian because as 1980s Joker, and I guess now "True Joker", he's the one with all the kind of Jack Nicholson/TKJ/DITF influences all swirled up in him. Frankly that was the only reason I could think to bring Joe Chill into a Joker story (See also: Endgame ...). But I actually don't hate the WHY of why Joker brought Joe Chill into this because actually I think the whole story hinges on it even if it's not spelled out in dialogue.

    I also hoped for Multiverse shenanigans, but c'est la vie.

    The what if/would they thing with Babs and Jason is crap. Bruce's caginess was crap although I'll say that I like that he's lying, he knows, and there's a good reason for it. That's kind of the only truly good thing this whole series did, the only original clever concept.

    Third two cents;

    Oh look we're back at the Movie Theater! There's Jokering and Joe Chilling and hordes of cannon fodder goons! Haven't seen that any time recently / last week or anything!
    Retro315 no more. Anonymity is so 2005.
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