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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakiduam View Post
    It's not like they aren't aware it exist. You really have to wonder how is that the only dynamic they can write for her has to be romantic in some way, or if Cass and Sthepanie are not paid too much attention because they are too young to be paired with the male members of the familly.
    That's likely more on the writers than editorial.

    Editorial knows about Arkham Games and Killing Joke, but I don't think they have so much control there.

    In comics, the relationship between Barbara and Tim was exclusively friendship. And I don't know a lot about about the relationship between Bruce and Barbara in the past, but their relationship is mentor-student (sometimes even a father figure) in current continuity.


    PS: Stephanie is usually paired with Tim.

  2. #302
    Mighty Member Rakiduam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    Stephanie is usually paired with Tim.
    That is kindof my point, Stephanie is usually paired with Tim and doesn't interacts with Dick and Jason all that much if ever. They don't seem to be intersted in integrate the batgirls with the rest of the family if it isn't in some romantic setting.

  3. #303
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    spoilers:
    Really canít tell if Johns is trying to build up Jason for something in the future, or heís tryna make him look bad.
    end of spoilers

  4. #304
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    I do wish people would actually know Dick's history before trying to use him as an example. Huntress is the closest example you can use, but he hooked up with Huntress before his romance with Babs was a thing that was being pushed. Also Babs and Helena don't really have a sister or family type of dynamic, they are more just teammates/friends, so is isn't really the same as Babs being with Bruce, Jason or Tim too in that aspect. That is more like when she was with Luke.

    spoilers:
    Anyway, I saw the other spoilers posted the other day with her leaving the room after the kiss, but I don't think Johns would have the two hook up like that unless he had other intentions. He seems to be fixated on the two of them together and likes the idea, so I don't think it is the end. That Detective Comics #1000 story he did where Babs was married to a Jason was written around the time he was writing Three Jokers. So maybe the idea is just in his head.
    end of spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Nite-Wing View Post
    I just think its dumb to assert a sexist trope onto a fictional female character that isn't in control of her actions. If you don't like it that's fine but to begin to go into the territory of calling her the only female in a...
    all male biker gang is a bit much


    Besides that the whole faux bro code incestuous dynamic that some people are trying to broach is also ridiculous
    Babs has her own family a father, a mother, and her own brother
    At best you could describe Bruce, Dick, Jason, Tim and co as her "friends" because she only met them at best when she started college. They aren't her surrogate family and the creepy dynamic that you all are using to shame any romance she has with anyone besides Dick
    by that same token wouldn't that make Dick, Jason, and co just as creepy right?
    You don't seem to understand the issue. The issue is how her relationship with Dick influences all her relationships with those specific characters. It would be like me hooking up with my brother's ex-gf or ex-wife, or in the case of Babs/Bruce me hooking up with my ex's mom/step-mom. That would be kind of gross. Because characters like Dick, Bruce, Jason and Tim are depicted at having a familial type of relationship where they are shown to act more like brothers, or in Bruce's case sometimes a father, it makes Babs having romances with them all across different media a bit creepy. It isn't that Babs is in a relationship with someone other than Dick but specifically who she is in a relationship with that makes it uncomfortable. It reflects poorly at her use as a character where it feels like she is being "passed around" the different Batman boys because they don't know what else to do with her character in terms of relationships other than romantically tie her to them in stories.

    You could have had a Dick/Donna situation with Babs/Jason where they become really close friends after bonding over a shared experience with the Joker, but because it is Babs it always defaults to romance since writers can't help themselves with her. That is a problem.

    So it isn't a difficult thing to understand. Now I get some people like the creepy/uncomfortable aspect of it and I can understand that, some people also liked the Jason/Talia thing, but I think it is a bit gross even if I don't want Dick and Babs together. There are plenty of romantic partners in the DCU for her that aren't basically Dick's family members. It would be like if Selina decided to be with Dick after her and Bruce break up, and then she was Jason's romantic partner in a video game and then Tim's romantic partner in a movie. It would be very weird and I don't think her fans would like it too much.

  5. #305
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    As long as Jason and babs kills dick/babs in all good. Between there connection to Gotham and the joker jay/babs is the better more interesting fit anyway. DC only ever push dick and babs together because they are the robin and batgirl of the same generation,Boring.

    And true is dick normal day to day life should be beyond Gotham by now and babs is all about Gotham.

  6. #306
    Incredible Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Oh great, Babs continues to be passed around the Bat-family. Who's next? Damian? Alfred?

    Though I gotta say, the kiss at least makes some sense in the context, as long as it doesn't go anywhere further that is.

  7. #307
    Mighty Member Katana500's Avatar
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    Awesome issue! Im very interested to hear peoples theories for what will happen in the final issue.

    I think the whole Barbara and Jason hysteria was a bit overblown. Its genuinely a pretty nice moment in the issue and I think it makes sense in the sense they are two individuals cut from the same cloth with shared trauma and issues. Honestly while it may be controversial here I would not be opposed to the pairing. I also really enjoyed the moment between Bruce and Babs shows how he admires her and recognizes her strength!


    My theories for what will happen in the final issue. Probably very off but I love guessing!
    spoilers:
    I wonder if Jason will be put in a position where he has the opportunity to shoot both or one of the remaining jokers. But won't due to Batgirls influence and realizing that revenge is a fools game that doesn't make you feel better.

    I think Joker will claim to be the mastermind behind the Joe Chill murders but it will be left vague so neither Batman or the Audience will know for sure.

    I think one joker might kill the other and then I do wonder if Batman will kill the final joker. I still think a Joker will capture Jason and Barbara or threaten to cause them more pain in future. And Bruce will finally snap killing the last one - before the reveal of a fourth joker
    end of spoilers

  8. #308
    Incredible Member RedQueen's Avatar
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    lol it wasn't as bad as everyone overblown it it to be.

    Like good issue. I think in continuity it's a good fit when Jason had been back like a year or two. His mental scars are really looked at here. I don't know what to make of it but I do get it. And the scene with Babs and Jason kissing is literally based on shared trauma for the entire scene so the placing of the kiss is not too out of place.

    Man the pool scene is just like ughhhhh so visceral. With all the dominoes falling down I'm really looking forward to the finale of this.

  9. #309
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Over 100 pages into this story now and I don't know if I'd call this good. I get that people will love it because it is about the Joker and Fabok's art is very nice and you can tell he worked hard on it, but it doesn't feel like much has happened and there is one issue left now. It just feels off for some reason. Maybe it falls apart for me with Johns writing the characters boiled down to a very basic interpretation with little depth to them. I don't know. I guess the Joe Chill reveal of him being connected to the Joker and possibly responsible for the death of Bruce's parents was meant to be this shocking thing, but it all feels a bit underwhelming. Maybe the slow pacing or the 3x3 layout add to it, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

    I still don't think Johns is finished teasing Jason/Babs, but also because of how little it feels like has happened in this I think Johns will tease a sequel series. Although maybe that isn't that surprising since Johns never really write conclusions for this stores. He always likes to end them with a "surprise" to leave open for a future project.

  10. #310
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    Batman came off as a bigger hypocrite than usual in this comic. It feels like Bruce wants Jason to kill the Jokers to keep his hands clean and expects Batgirl to reign Red Hood in.

    Criminal Joker seems to be in charge for now, but I don't think he's the original Joker, if that person still exists.

    Not sure if Joe Chill is going to be converted into a new Joker(since their attempt to convert Jason seemingly failed) or what the 'real reason' for killing the Waynes might be, unless we're getting an unsavory revelation about the Wayne family.

    This whole storyline reminds me of Metal Gear 5.

  11. #311
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    I just don’t think that it’s a very natural or human response. Shipping whatever, it just doesn’t feel like a believable response to me. In any way, for any reason. I certainly don’t try to cheer up or comfort the women in my life that I’m not involved with romantically by kissing them.

    Beyond that, this story really hasn’t explained anything. I still don’t really get the difference between the Comedian and the Clown.
    Last edited by Pohzee; 09-29-2020 at 07:41 AM.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    I just don’t think that it’s a very natural or human response. Shipping whatever, it just doesn’t feel like a believable response to me. In any way, for any reason. I certainly don’t try to cheer up or comfort the women in my life that I’m not involved with romantically by kissing them.

    Beyond that, this story really hasn’t explained anything. I still don’t really get the difference between the Comedian and the Clown.
    Clown is much more unhinged than Comedian, considering his fake family.

  13. #313
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Pretty unimpressed with this. Fabok’s art is gorgeous but Johns writing is very tepid. It’s the same tired old cliches we’ve seen a dozen times before, made all the worse by the Joker over saturation we are currently dealing with.

  14. #314
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    After reading issue 2, I have to echo the feeling of this being unimprissevie and mediocre. After a first issue that moved too fast, leaving way too many plot holes on its wake, we get a second issue that advances at a snail pace but it doesn't do anything to actually address those plot holes nor really advance the main plot in a significant way. Pretty weird since there's just one issue left and I very much doubt Johns will be able to deliver a satisfying conclusion in these circumstances.

    Some people are impressed for Bruce's reactions to Jason killing one Joker, for how surprisingly reasonable he's being and for the "exploration" of what made Jason heal wrong. And while at first glance these are powerful moments that say Johns understand these characters, the thing is, these are all thing other writers have addressed already years ago. Johns is only rehashing things that everyone already know. Maybe if this book would've been published 10 years ago, it would've been a turning point for Jason's characterization. But Johns is pretty much ignoring everything past the original Under the Red Hood, and so, his take on Jason comes as immature, childish and reckless. Is specially notorious this time since Three Jokers released alongside RHO 49 and in 3J we have Jason having a break down over not getting help when he needed it, while on RHO, you have Jason cheering someone up by telling them that Life is about standing up and trying again after messing up. If Johns would've used this more mature, experienced Jason, 3 Jokers would've been a much better story. But then he would've missed his chance to push his juvenile symbolism and poorly thoughts efforts of being "deep". And speaking of, the idea of Joker grooming Jason for a particular goal was already tackled by Lobdell during Death of The Family with much better results.

    I was aware that the thing with Jason and Barbara was short lived, but I still stand by what I said. Making it just a "shocking" moment is disrespectful to both characters, and if isn't picked up in the final issue, then it will just a badly attempt at manipulating readers to drive up sales. And I certainly hoped Johns would better to do that. Fabok delivers a competent art but stilted and without any dynamism. I also have problems to recognize the unmasked Jason since he draws him painfully generic and there's nothing in his rendition that makes him go "yeah, that's Jaosn Todd"

    Overall, this is a story that is just not living up to the hype but I'm in the minority, a quick look online shows that your average reader thinks this is the best thing ever.

  15. #315
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Kind of slow. Batman is kind of just there, and Babs is all over the place being mad at Jason one minute, looking at Jason like a sad puppy the next. Jason here though I thought was compelling.

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