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  1. #136
    Astonishing Member DurararaFTW's Avatar
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    My concern is if Killing Joke Joker and Death of the Family Joker are the same Joker, then that's the only real Joker. The other two won't be in the same hemisphere of importance.

  2. #137
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixSpeedSamurai View Post
    I do enjoy the Black Label books, but in the long term, they are meaningless to continuity, and don't boost the main titles whatsoever. With the top talent shifting to them, it hurts the main, in continuity books in my opinion.
    And why does that matter?

  3. #138
    Mighty Member SixSpeedSamurai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    And why does that matter?
    Regular titles will sell more with big names on them.
    Pulls: Batman, Detective Comics, and Young Justice.
    My runs: Batman #252- and Detective #444-, every issue since I was born.

  4. #139
    Don't Bully a Hurt Dragon Sergard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    I think Killing Joke Joker is the Comedian Joker, who's basically a psycho and the same one who removed his own face during New 52.
    Jason Fabok has confirmed on Instagram that Killing Joke Joker and Comedian Joker are the same.

    Quesstion: "Isn't Hawaiian Joker technically The Killing Joke Joker?"
    Jason Fabok: "yes as well as the book 3 regular cover and the comedian, and red hood."

  5. #140
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    And why does that matter?
    For me a large part of the appeal of superhero comics is the long running story that builds over decades. So even if it isn't shackle by whatever batsuit Batman is wearing this week, I like for my stories to "count."
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  6. #141
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixSpeedSamurai View Post
    Regular titles will sell more with big names on them.
    And again, why does that matter? DC still gets the money whether it comes from the regular titles or Black Label titles.

  7. #142
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    For me a large part of the appeal of superhero comics is the long running story that builds over decades. So even if it isn't shackle by whatever batsuit Batman is wearing this week, I like for my stories to "count."
    So just read the stories you feel "count" then. They're not going anywhere, so why worry about what the comics that don't "count" are doing or who's working on them? There's an audience for both, there's room for both, so why not let good artists work on whichever title they want?

  8. #143
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    So just read the stories you feel "count" then. They're not going anywhere, so why worry about what the comics that don't "count" are doing or who's working on them? There's an audience for both, there's room for both, so why not let good artists work on whichever title they want?
    Well, I like for my stories to count, but I also want them to be good. And Fabok is a good creator. Obviously he is wasted on a monthly book, but I think that's more an indictment of how DC is handling their current series than anything else. But of course, he should be able to work on a project he wants to work on.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  9. #144
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Well, I like for my stories to count, but I also want them to be good. And Fabok is a good creator. Obviously he is wasted on a monthly book, but I think that's more an indictment of how DC is handling their current series than anything else. But of course, he should be able to work on a project he wants to work on.
    And the stories you don't read and don't "count" shouldn't be good? And why is any artist wasted on a monthly book?

    Not to hammer the point, but I think artists should have some leeway to work on the sort of titles that appeal to them when offered, and that both the continuity and out of continuity stuff should hopefully be good. And we're talking Batman here, a lot of it is probably going to be good.

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergard View Post
    Jason Fabok has confirmed on Instagram that Killing Joke Joker and Comedian Joker are the same.

    Quesstion: "Isn't Hawaiian Joker technically The Killing Joke Joker?"
    Jason Fabok: "yes as well as the book 3 regular cover and the comedian, and red hood."
    So if it really splits into Golden Age Joker, Silver Age Joker, and Bronze-to-Modern Joker, this whole notion becomes a little skewed for me. It's all in the execution of course! But like, the question of "when did one or the other debut?" arises because you can follow the actual evolution of Joker in chronological order. For instance it was Silver Age Joker, in the original "Red Hood" story, that revealed his secret origin ... how would that be His secret origin and not the Golden Age Joker's?

    And what's Batman's actual continuity status regarding Gold and Silver ages, because Earth-2 is a thing to some degree? Obviously I go by the Morrison School of Thought that all of it happened in some form or another to our Prime Batman, so I'm very curious to see how it splits down the middle. It also might be neat if like, Jason getting his final revenge on Modern Joker, killing that guy, means that like Joker going forward might be the Gold or Silver Age guy?

    Or are we talking Joker experiencing radical multiversal timeline phasing shenanigans, where his "changes" over the years are explained by his Past Selves phasing back in via some kind of cosmic occasion? Or even just "He Is The Same Guy" but his past selves Memories or Minds phase back into his body, slightly altering his body language, posture and stylistic choices or ways of thinking/criming?

    Or does Johns have some other card up his sleeve? That's the question.
    Retro315 no more. Anonymity is so 2005.
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  11. #146
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    I hope that with this comic they will give a twist to Red Hood, now with the departure of Lobdell they will give him a better writer with better ideas, make the character grow and not only be the target of the scorn of the bats. In the interview, it was said that this will cause changes in the current canons.

  12. #147
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenixdeAlasNegras View Post
    I hope that with this comic they will give a twist to Red Hood, now with the departure of Lobdell they will give him a better writer with better ideas, make the character grow and not only be the target of the scorn of the bats. In the interview, it was said that this will cause changes in the current canons.
    No, Fabok said that they're planting seeds that he hopes someone else will pick and develop down the line, he never said that this will be canon. Also, Jason hasn't been the target of scorn from the batfamily for a while now.

  13. #148
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    I wonder if Geoff John's having Hal contact Bruce as one of his last messages to gush about him was due in part to him writing this series.

  14. #149
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denkota View Post
    I wonder if Geoff John's having Hal contact Bruce as one of his last messages to gush about him was due in part to him writing this series.
    Maybe Johns was trying to make up for the complaints about his perceived issues writing Batman...

  15. #150
    Spectacular Member gambit2051's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    I hadn't actually thought of that; you're totally right, Snyder did kinda undercut the entire premise of this storyline. However, if somehow there are 3 Jokers from the same universe that would be interesting.
    I was jst coming here to point this exact thing out. Snyders "idea" for BWL may actually have been inspired by Johns idea for how 3 different people have been Joker. Now we just learn how and when...but i doubt the identity of Original or Current will be made clear, just how they "contracted" being the Joker for 2 and 3.
    If you are going to refute, you need to do your own research.

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