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  1. #421
    Mighty Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleGlovez View Post
    spoilers:
    According to the internal logic of the series, no. In #2, the Comedian has memories of killing Jason and the Criminal is also implied to have the Red Hood origin. In #3, Batman discovered the Joker's identity a week after meeting him and it was the Killing Joke version. Joker's spiel at the end of this issue makes it clear (to me anyways) that the Comedian was always the true Joker. He was the Golden Age Joker who first fought Batman and he was the one who killed Jason. At some point prior to this story, he successfully created two new Jokers and, based on their appearances and professions, molded them into the Criminal and Clown, feeding them stories of his past exploits so they could sell the part, all as part of this grand scheme to f*ck with Batman by giving him a pointless mystery that ends with Joker supplanting Joe Chill in Batman's psyche. They were merely meant to pay homage to aspects of Joker's personality. The two of them never actually encountered Batman as the Joker prior to this.

    At least, that's my take on it. But yeah, you gotta wonder why the Mobius Chair would've even told Batman this if two of them were fake, and why Batman was so perplexed by it when according to the internal logic of Darkseid War he could've simply asked the chair for more information. (And indeed, if he knew Joker's identity a week after meeting him, kinda strange that he asked the chair in the first place.) Then there's the Rebirth special's assertion that two of the Jokers had been arrested separately at Baltimore and Central City, with Batman still having no clue to the mystery.
    end of spoilers

    Anyway, I'm just glad this charade is over with. Time to put Geoff Johns' career out to pasture, methinks.
    Thank you for the explanation
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  2. #422
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    This was a good story and probably John’s best Batman story that was let down by the whole “Three Jokers” motif. I loved the Joe Chill stuff, Bruce had one of his all time best depictions in this third issue, and I actually really like the Killing Joke addendum

  3. #423
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I have hard time believing that what we got here is what he had planned during Darkseid War.
    Probably not, I would assume things changed when they decided on the loose continuity and wanting it be be stand alone.

  4. #424
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Overall I didn't think this was that good. The art was fantastic, and I can see how some might have enjoyed the story, but to me the whole thing felt very weak. So many of the story beats have been done before and mostly better too. From Joe Chill's resolution (which was the best out of the bunch I guess), Jason blaming Bruce, the Joker saying nothing new to Batman, and Barbara again just revolving around the Killing Joke story. Maybe if you haven't read a ton of Batman stories, only things just like TKJ and maybe watched the Under the Red Hood movie, then I can see this story appealing more to you. But in the end there wasn't really any great mystery to follow and the resolution was a bit sparse with Johns doing his typical thing of setting up future stories rather than having real conclusions. So one Joker is left in the end and it is the Killing Joke Joker who is the "Comedian", but the Comedian might have created all the others including the Golden Age/Criminal one, or he didn't? It all makes no sense when you factor in TKJ Joker having a son that is still a kid when he should be much older if he was the first Joker. I dunno. The whole three Jokers thing just feels so pointless and in the end we are left with the most edgy Joker (TKJ one) as being the last which is my least favorite probably. You could just cut out all the three Jokers stuff and probably gotten a better and more clean story overall.

    It reminded me of Doomsday Clock in that it felt like Johns wrote it to stroke his own ego. Where HE wanted to be the one to write a sequel to Watchmen, and now here HE wanted to be the one to write a sequel to The Killing Joke. He even ended both stories the exact same way. With the reveal of Doctor Manhattan's "son" and here with the reveal of Joker's family in The Killing Joke having survived and him having a son living in Alaska. I think Johns wrote this story because he wanted to obviously make a lot of money, but also leave his mark on iconic stories like TKJ. He has this fixation where he wants to be the one to rewrite them in his vision directly rather than just taking inspiration from them. It's a bit odd.

    And like I expected that kiss between Jason and Barbara wasn't just a spur of the moment thing. I knew Johns wouldn't leave it at that and it is clear he really likes the idea of the two of them together. Jason being so deeply in love with Barbara that he was willing to give up everything to be with her felt out of character. Jason really did not come across well in this series to me when I felt like he should have been a lot more confident and resolute in his actions than he was. He was clearly the weakest out of the 3 heroes writing wise. Even Bruce was a bit dry all throughout it with some things he said making no sense. Like apparently knowing who the Joker is all along after the first week of meeting him but never revealing it to anyone for some reason, and Babs' story was odd. I get Johns was trying to show how strong she is by overcoming what the Joker did to her, but her character constantly revolving around TJK and its consequences at every turn doesn't really feel like she has moved past it.

    In the end maybe I am being a bit too harsh on it. I didn't think it was terrible, but just a bit uninspired. The art was still really great though. Also the series sold extremely well. Over 300K. It is one of the best selling series in decades that isn't an anniversary issue or some big event. I think maybe only Star Wars #1 sold more than Three Jokers #1 in that category? Not sure, but given how it ended and how well it sold I 100% believe this will be considered canon and probably Johns will even write a sequel. Maybe he will add in a new Joker (who could have been the janitor that swiped away Jason's love note), finally have Jason and Babs get together, or even focus on the Joker's son, but I feel very confident that more will be done with this going forward.
    Last edited by Badou; 10-27-2020 at 08:45 AM.

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    Overall I didn't think this was that good. The art was fantastic, and I can see how some might have enjoyed the story, but to me the whole thing felt very weak. So many of the story beats have been done before and mostly better too. From Joe Chill's resolution (which was the best out of the bunch I guess), Jason blaming Bruce, the Joker saying nothing new to Batman, and Barbara again just revolving around the Killing Joke story. Maybe if you haven't read a ton of Batman stories, only things just like TKJ and maybe watched the Under the Red Hood movie, then I can see this story appealing more to you. But in the end there wasn't really any great mystery to follow and the resolution was a bit sparse with Johns doing his typical thing of setting up future stories rather than having real conclusions. So one Joker is left in the end and it is the Killing Joke Joker who is the "Comedian", but the Comedian might have created all the others including the Golden Age/Criminal one, or he didn't? It all makes no sense when you factor in TKJ Joker having a son that is still a kid when he should be much older if he was the first Joker. I dunno. The whole three Jokers thing just feels so pointless and in the end we are left with the most edgy Joker (TKJ one) as being the last which is my least favorite probably. You could just cut out all the three Jokers stuff and probably gotten a better and more clean story overall.

    It reminded me of Doomsday Clock in that it felt like Johns wrote it to stroke his own ego. Where HE wanted to be the one to write a sequel to Watchmen, and now here HE wanted to be the one to write a sequel to The Killing Joke. He even ended both stories the exact same way. With the reveal of Doctor Manhattan's "son" and here with the reveal of Joker's family in The Killing Joke having survived and him having a son living in Alaska. I think Johns wrote this story because he wanted to obviously make a lot of money, but also leave his mark on iconic stories like TKJ. He has this fixation where he wants to be the one to rewrite them in his vision directly rather than just taking inspiration from them. It's a bit odd.

    And like I expected that kiss between Jason and Barbara wasn't just a spur of the moment thing. I knew Johns wouldn't leave it at that and it is clear he really likes the idea of the two of them together. Jason being so deeply in love with Barbara that he was willing to give up everything to be with her felt out of character. Jason really did not come across well in this series to me when I felt like he should have been a lot more confident and resolute in his actions than he was. He was clearly the weakest out of the 3 heroes writing wise. Even Bruce was a bit dry all throughout it with some things he said making no sense. Like apparently knowing who the Joker is all along after the first week of meeting him but never revealing it to anyone for some reason, and Babs' story was odd. I get Johns was trying to show how strong she is by overcoming what the Joker did to her, but her character constantly revolving around TJK and its consequences at every turn doesn't really feel like she has moved past it.

    In the end maybe I am being a bit too harsh on it. I didn't think it was terrible, but just a bit uninspired. The art was still really great though. Also the series sold extremely well. Over 300K. It is one of the best selling series in decades that isn't an anniversary issue or some big event. I think maybe only Star Wars #1 sold more than Three Jokers #1 in that category? Not sure, but given how it ended and how well it sold I 100% believe this will be considered canon and probably Johns will even write a sequel. Maybe he will add in a new Joker (who could have been the janitor that swiped away Jason's love note), finally have Jason and Babs get together, or even focus on the Joker's son, but I feel very confident that more will be done with this going forward.
    I kinda agree with you. It’s a story that had some good concepts but the actual structure kinda let it down.

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgoth View Post
    I really liked Chill's storyline here, and it was touchable in the end.
    But with final Joker twist, I don't know, this entire family thing seems a little bit weird for me. And why Bruce asked Mobius chair about Joker's identity, if he knew all along?
    It is not a mistake by Johns, when Batman asks for the identity of the Joker he is only testing the abilities of the chair, just like he did when he asks about the murderer of his parents. He is surprised because the chair gives him to understand that there are three, which means that at least from that point all 3 jokers were already active.

    spoilers:
    Some of the big questions that the story deliberately leaves unanswered is what Joker created the other two? And since when do all 3 operate at the same time?
    end of spoilers

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky Looke 90 View Post
    It is not a mistake by Johns, when Batman asks for the identity of the Joker he is only testing the abilities of the chair, just like he did when he asks about the murderer of his parents. He is surprised because the chair gives him to understand that there are three, which means that at least from that point all 3 jokers were already active.

    spoilers:
    Some of the big questions that the story deliberately leaves unanswered is what Joker created the other two? And since when do all 3 operate at the same time?
    end of spoilers
    Yeah. That's a good explanation.

    Batman just ask Joker's identity to test the Mobius chair, but the surprised was that there 3 at that time.

  8. #428
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    And like I expected that kiss between Jason and Barbara wasn't just a spur of the moment thing. I knew Johns wouldn't leave it at that and it is clear he really likes the idea of the two of them together. Jason being so deeply in love with Barbara that he was willing to give up everything to be with her felt out of character.
    Why, why, why do they do this crap? It doesn't do Jason any favors, and certainly doesn't do Barbara any. So now it's Bruce, Dick, Tim, and now Jason (in various media). I mean, this isn't the first leanings that way, it's just so irritating.

  9. #429
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    This story was high-class garbage. i've never seen a story this prestigious be so overtly vapid and redundant; Gary Frank I'm so sorry sir, you getting hoed sir.
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  10. #430
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    I have to say it... Jason, seriously?

    spoilers:
    He leaves a note taped to Barb's door (with really flimsy tape) in which he says that he is the Red Hood, that his name is Jason and tha he knows Barbara Gordon... way to protect both your secret ids...
    end of spoilers

  11. #431
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    This story was high-class garbage. i've never seen a story this prestigious be so overtly vapid and redundant; Gary Frank I'm so sorry sir, you getting hoed sir.
    Don't you mean Geoff Johns? Gary Frank had nothing to do with this.

  12. #432
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Don't you mean Geoff Johns? Gary Frank had nothing to do with this.
    I meant Jason Fabok, the art was fantastic.
    SIGNAL/Duke Thomas' fandom wikia

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  13. #433
    Astonishing Member Nite-Wing's Avatar
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    As with most Johns projects for the last 10 years
    The art is very good and the story is very bad
    Hopefully this closes the book on him ever touching Batman again *minus earth one*

    Jason/Babs not surprised but lets see where DC takes this
    The Joker stuff is a mess and as predicted would be bad or nonsensical

  14. #434
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    Ok, this is going to be long.

    The story was bad, just plain and simple. The premise was dumb and any possible potential it could've had it was squandered by Johns simply repackaging the same core ideas about the Joker that far better writers than him have already addressed. There was nothing new or ground-breaking in this story just another of Johns poor attempts at being Alan Moore. However, the worst sin this series committed is that it was unable to remain consistent with itself. It was never explained why only now the Jokers decided to tip their hand and reveal their existence to everyone, it was never addressed where they were, to begin with through the decades-long war they've waged against Batman, it was never explained how now one ever realized there were more than one Joker around. And the huge twist about Bruce knowing all about the comedian is not only Johns metaphorically spitting into Moore's work, it destroys the story "mystery" since it either means that Bruce knew since the beginning that there were multiple Jokers around, or he's the dumbest detective in all of fiction.

    The idea itself of Joker being multiple guys also lacks a satisfying payoff since it was never truly explained or shown why they should be more Jokers, and this rather than open new narrative possibilities for the character, it only diminishes it, since the character works precisely because he is unique and so versatile that writers can always give their own personal takes that only enrich his story. Taking that away is metaphorically "peeking behind the veil" and removing all the mysticism, turning him into just another serial killer of which comics are bloated.

    Johns grasp of the batfamily is also pretty bad. Barbara is once again just a walking reminder of TKJ with no real agency or input on the story beyond fishing for the reader's pity. Bruce could might as well be a cardboard cut out for most of the story, only showing some (flat) characterization in the last issue, and Jason is just horribly handled. His only role in this story is being the series punching bag, getting all the punishment but no development, even the moment with him killing the Clown becomes meaningless since it never did anything to change the board and in fact, played right into the hands of the Clown's grand plan. His sudden infatuation with Barbara is a complete asspull, they don't have any chemistry and even discounting all the character growth Jason has had on his own series, is completely out of character for him. If there's one thing Jason is known for, is his complete commitment to his ideals. He might need help from other characters but ultimately, everything he does, he does for himself. He would never give his identity away just for a pretty face.

    Fabok does decent, if forgettable work with the art. Technically sound but shallow, there's simply nothing there that wows me or sticks into my mind.

  15. #435
    Mighty Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    A decent enough story that I actually think got let down by the selling point: the 3 jokers. It was a mystery that didn’t really end up mattering, which is a shame.

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