DC Editor Brian Cunningham remembers Amazing Spider-Man Annual #21

[Miles To Go]

Hell, one of the final stories, Matt Fraction's Sensational Spider-Man Annual in 2007, is one of my favourite Spider-Man issues now.

If I recall, that story almost managed to nab an eisner too. I don't see too many post-OMD Spidey stories being nominated for that (although Slott won one for Silver Surfer, and deservedly so)

Could it have gotten stale if it had continued on with no sense of direction? Absolutely, but I do think it ending during a time period when it was at probably its most consistent in terms of writing and approach contributed to the backlash.

The great thing about the strip is that it does have direction and has thus made the marriage quite interesting, with Peter and MJ having perks to their livelihoods but also having to make sacrifices to maintain their fortunes (such as currently, where MJ sent Peter back home to cover for his identity and leave her alone to complete her publicity tour, something she was pretty dismayed about as it means spending her days alone until she gets back)

[David Walton]

I think it would be really interesting to see how Marvel would approach the marriage in a modern context. Writers tend to plan things out much further in advance than they once did, even a decade ago. So I don't think you'd get that sense of "what do we do with MJ this month?" that maybe you once did.

[boots]

He means that because it has lasted 30 years thanks to things like the newspaper comic and Renew Your Vows, if they go on for another 20 years it will have lasted 50.

And to be fair, I think the JMS era from 2002-2007 worked incredibly well, I've been going through that book as well as the satellites from that era recently and I personally wouldn't say there was a case of diminishing returns with that. Hell, one of the final stories, Matt Fraction's Sensational Spider-Man Annual in 2007, is one of my favourite Spider-Man issues now.

Could it have gotten stale if it had continued on with no sense of direction? Absolutely, but I do think it ending during a time period when it was at probably its most consistent in terms of writing and approach contributed to the backlash.

ah k, i see where that was coming from now. cheers

and yeah, i can understand timing and execution having a lot to do with backlash. whether or not i believe a non married status quo might be more advantageous, i completely agree with most that it was poorly introduced

[Celgress]

ah k, i see where that was coming from now. cheers

and yeah, i can understand timing and execution having a lot to do with backlash. whether or not i believe a non married status quo might be more advantageous, i completely agree with most that it was poorly introduced

I still don't understand from a narrative standpoint why they thought the infamous "Deal" was the best way to go as presented in the book itself? The stakes honestly didn't seem great enough to justify the price. It might have been different if, for example, Spidey learned Aunt May was in pain but she seemed ready to move on. Also, Mephisto got a win over Spidey but so what? Spidey remains out there saving people and occasionally the world unabetted. Everyone involved came out looking stupid in this storyline. A decade later I'm scratching my head trying to understand the flawed thought/ decision-making process involved.

[David Walton]

Marvel's CRISIS OF INFINITE MARRIAGES will reveal that every Marvel character that isn't married actually was and also sold their relationship to Mephisto. He's been collecting all these marriages and when he has enough of them, he'll be able to forge The Hallmark Gauntlet and erase Valentine's Day from existence!

[bob.schoonover]

I still don't understand from a narrative standpoint why they thought the infamous "Deal" was the best way to go as presented in the book itself? The stakes honestly didn't seem great enough to justify the price. It might have been different if, for example, Spidey learned Aunt May was in pain but she seemed ready to move on. Also, Mephisto got a win over Spidey but so what? Spidey remains out there saving people and occasionally the world unabetted. Everyone involved came out looking stupid in this storyline. A decade later I'm scratching my head trying to understand the flawed thought/ decision-making process involved.

Should we start a "Pick apart all the ways to break up MJ/Pete" thread to interrogate all the possibilities and see if Mephisto is the least worst option? It'd basically be like that 101 Ways to End the Clone Saga book (or whatever it was called). I kind of favor Secret Invasion/Skrull (the one two punch of Norman taking over SHIELD and MJ appearing having missed everything from Gang War on would be tough, I suppose), but that's also incredibly flawed. I am also prepared to tepidly cape for the Mephisto solution (or at least put items in the "pro" side of the ledger).

[boots]

I still don't understand from a narrative standpoint why they thought the infamous "Deal" was the best way to go as presented in the book itself? The stakes honestly didn't seem great enough to justify the price. It might have been different if, for example, Spidey learned Aunt May was in pain but she seemed ready to move on. Also, Mephisto got a win over Spidey but so what? Spidey remains out there saving people and occasionally the world unabetted. Everyone involved came out looking stupid in this storyline. A decade later I'm scratching my head trying to understand the flawed thought/ decision-making process involved.

beats me, dude

that story should have been so heart breakingly well written that even ardent marriage supporters would grudgingly admit it was good. but that’s not what happened

[boots]

Marvel's CRISIS OF INFINITE MARRIAGES will reveal that every Marvel character that isn't married actually was and also sold their relationship to Mephisto. He's been collecting all these marriages and when he has enough of them, he'll be able to forge The Hallmark Gauntlet and erase Valentine's Day from existence!

this is genius

[Scott Taylor]

I was so looking forward to Dennis Leary as Captain Stacy, and it would have been great...if he had actually, you know, been playing Captain Stacy. The quiet voice of wisdom. The guy who doesn't buy into the public's opinion of Spider-Man and recognizes things for what they really are. Who even gives Peter his blessing when he inadvertently caused his death.

Instead, we got the JJJ substitute who made Peter swear never to go near Gwen again. You really couldn't get a further departure from the Stacy of the comics. Every attitude he held, every decision he made was the exact opposite of his 616 version.

It's almost as bizarre as the MCU's Uncle Ben phobia.

Stacy was very disappointing in the ASM movies, but no one focuses on him because there were so many other bad things about those movies. O'Leary's Captain Stacy seems brilliant in comparison to the parents being in there, for instance, in spite of the lost opportunities.

It is really weird that ASM movies and the MCU go so far out of their way to avoid everything important about Uncle Ben. Baffling.

[Miles To Go]

beats me, dude

that story should have been so heart breakingly well written that even ardent marriage supporters would grudgingly admit it was good. but that’s not what happened

There are parts of OMD I like, but it's really just the carrot-dangling bits, i.e "parts of your souls will remember the marriage" (took them ten years to kind of hint at this), and the promise MJ makes at the end that what Mephisto does to them won't keep them apart for long (though not for lack of trying for the last decade also)

I suppose if you want to stretch it further, the altering of reality could also be used to explain all the greviances and further relationship problems between characters across the entire Marvel landscape, but since Mephisto has been thwarted a couple of times since then in other books, the story would just make him to look like even more of an idiot for creating a reality which even he cannot master.

[David Walton]

It is really weird that ASM movies and the MCU go so far out of their way to avoid everything important about Uncle Ben. Baffling.

They're just embarrassed that Batman vs. Superman beat them to the punch and they had to scrap the scene where Phil Urich is going to kill Peter until he realizes they both have an uncle named Ben.

[Celgress]

Marvel's CRISIS OF INFINITE MARRIAGES will reveal that every Marvel character that isn't married actually was and also sold their relationship to Mephisto. He's been collecting all these marriages and when he has enough of them, he'll be able to forge The Hallmark Gauntlet and erase Valentine's Day from existence!

LOL, at least this way the Deal makes better sense from Mephisto's POV.

[Celgress]

beats me, dude

that story should have been so heart breakingly well written that even ardent marriage supporters would grudgingly admit it was good. but that’s not what happened

I agree with you friend. I'll always contend something like my "Spidey makes the Deal to save a busload full of children because he has no other option and if he ever tells anyone the kids die" idea should have been used instead. But hey, the Marvel Office knows best.

[boots]

There are parts of OMD I like, but it's really just the carrot-dangling bits, i.e "parts of your souls will remember the marriage" (took them ten years to kind of hint at this), and the promise MJ makes at the end that what Mephisto does to them won't keep them apart for long (though not for lack of trying for the last decade also)

I suppose if you want to stretch it further, the altering of reality could also be used to explain all the greviances and further relationship problems between characters across the entire Marvel landscape, but since Mephisto has been thwarted a couple of times since then in other books, the story would just make him to look like even more of an idiot for creating a reality which even he cannot master.

i’ve stayed away from it myself, not even morbidly curious. the fact that the most positivity it can garner is indifference says a lot

[boots]

I agree with you friend. I'll always contend something like my "Spidey makes the Deal to save a busload full of children because he has no other option and if he ever tells anyone the kids die" idea should have been used instead. But hey, the Marvel Office knows best.

i’d be curious to know what alternatives were thrown about

it’s also funny that a mephisto solution was suggested as early as clone saga, and maybe even from the marriage’s publication if i‘m not misinterpreting fabian’s tweet. weird