DC Editor Brian Cunningham remembers Amazing Spider-Man Annual #21

[boots]

I agree with you friend. I'll always contend something like my "Spidey makes the Deal to save a busload full of children because he has no other option and if he ever tells anyone the kids die" idea should have been used instead. But hey, the Marvel Office knows best.

i’d be curious to know what alternatives were thrown about

it’s also funny that a mephisto solution was suggested as early as clone saga, and maybe even from the marriage’s publication if i‘m not misinterpreting fabian’s tweet. weird

[Celgress]

i’d be curious to know what alternatives were thrown about

it’s also funny that a mephisto solution was suggested as early as clone saga, and maybe even from the marriage’s publication if i‘m not misinterpreting fabian’s tweet. weird

As would I.

I hope someday we get "Life of Reilly" level insights into the process behind OMD. I think it would be truly fascinating.

[Inversed]

I still don't understand from a narrative standpoint why they thought the infamous "Deal" was the best way to go as presented in the book itself? The stakes honestly didn't seem great enough to justify the price. It might have been different if, for example, Spidey learned Aunt May was in pain but she seemed ready to move on. Also, Mephisto got a win over Spidey but so what? Spidey remains out there saving people and occasionally the world unabetted. Everyone involved came out looking stupid in this storyline. A decade later I'm scratching my head trying to understand the flawed thought/ decision-making process involved.

I've always believed if they just did what ended up happening in One Moment In Time right from the beginning, it would've be so much better and nowhere near as troublesome. Ie: "Aunt May survives so the Kingpin goes after everyone else in his family, so Peter goes to see Doctor Strange who wipes out the identity from everybody except MJ, she's upset at this and they finally break up."

The only reason they didn't do it is because Quesada said he "didn't want to teach kids that divorce was okay"....even though there has been many divorces before and since, and I'm pretty sure "making a deal with the devil" both literally and figuratively is a far worse thing to do.

[Celgress]

The only reason they didn't do it is because Quesada said he "didn't want to teach kids that divorce was okay"....even though there has been many divorces before and since, and I'm pretty sure "making a deal with the devil" both literally and figuratively is a far worse thing to do.

I literally did a doubletake when I read this. So, let me get this right, divorce isn't okay but making a deal with a Satan stand-in against the wishes of the person you are "saving" is? Quesada certainly has a unique view on life. *shakes head* lol

[Scott Taylor]

i’d be curious to know what alternatives were thrown about

it’s also funny that a mephisto solution was suggested as early as clone saga, and maybe even from the marriage’s publication if i‘m not misinterpreting fabian’s tweet. weird

Its funny that a line like "I want your marriage" was among the alternatives considered, let alone that it was greenlit.

[Tuck]

Should we start a "Pick apart all the ways to break up MJ/Pete" thread to interrogate all the possibilities and see if Mephisto is the least worst option?

The least worst option was taking MJ off the table and telling JMS he couldn't end the separation.

[Kevinroc]

I literally did a doubletake when I read this. So, let me get this right, divorce isn't okay but making a deal with a Satan stand-in against the wishes of the person you are "saving" is? Quesada certainly has a unique view on life. *shakes head* lol

This is why some people haven't let go even after more than 10 years.

[bob.schoonover]

The least worst option was taking MJ off the table and telling JMS he couldn't end the separation.

I don't think the timeline works on this - MJ and Pete reconciled in 50 and had the missed opportunity a few months earlier (so JMS had this planned for a number of months before 50) - it sounds like OMD/ending the marriage really went from Quesada hope to action item while planning the lead up to Civil War (let's guess over 2 years after 50).

I also think leaving her in limbo was not a particularly good option (which still might leave it as the least worst option) - Peter could never move on (not that he's done a great job of moving on since) and there'd never be a particularly good answer at conventions to "When is MJ coming back? What's up with them?"

[Celgress]

This is why some people haven't let go even after more than 10 years.

While I'm not one of those people, I frankly can't believe he said something so stupid (about divorce) regarding OMD. What is this the 19th Century? Wow, certain people are just wow I have no words.

[Miles To Go]

The only reason they didn't do it is because Quesada said he "didn't want to teach kids that divorce was okay"....even though there has been many divorces before and since, and I'm pretty sure "making a deal with the devil" both literally and figuratively is a far worse thing to do.

That, and Joe likely wanted an "out" in case they were forced to bring back the marriage, hence all that stuff about their souls remembering part of the marriage and MJ's vow their love would overcome the hold Mephisto would have over their characters...though the company held their nerve the last decade or so as sales managed to recover well enough to justify the sacrifice

[Prof. Warren]

The only reason they didn't do it is because Quesada said he "didn't want to teach kids that divorce was okay"....even though there has been many divorces before and since, and I'm pretty sure "making a deal with the devil" both literally and figuratively is a far worse thing to do.

I don't know what Quesada's actual quote was. If it's that, it's awfully silly. I feel like he didn't put it in quite those words but anyhow...

It'd be better - and I have read quotes from him to this effect - to just say that having a divorced Peter Parker only compounds the problem of marriage making Peter too old. Having Peter permanently being identified as a divorced dude just doesn't work and immediately ages him in a way that even marriage didn't. The magical solution of wiping away the marriage is infinitely preferable to having him go through a divorce.

As for divorce being seen as worse than making a deal with the devil (or a devil stand-in), the difference would obviously be that one is a real life situation and the other is strictly fantasy.

You could teach kids all day that making a deal with the devil is ok and no actual deals with the devil will ever take place.

And, of course, you could look at the actual story of OMD and say that it's technically MJ, not Peter, that makes the deal and that the deal itself isn't seen as a good thing necessarily but a self-sacrificing gesture that comes with a terrible price so it's definitely not portraying the deal in a positive light but haven't we rehashed OMD enough?

[Kevinroc]

I don't know what Quesada's actual quote was. If it's that, it's awfully silly. I feel like he didn't put it in quite those words but anyhow...

It'd be better - and I have read quotes from him to this effect - to just say that having a divorced Peter Parker only compounds the problem of marriage making Peter too old. Having Peter permanently being identified as a divorced dude just doesn't work and immediately ages him in a way that even marriage didn't. The magical solution of wiping away the marriage is infinitely preferable to having him go through a divorce.

As for divorce being seen as worse than making a deal with the devil (or a devil stand-in), the difference would obviously be that one is a real life situation and the other is strictly fantasy.

You could teach kids all day that making a deal with the devil is ok and no actual deals with the devil will ever take place.

And, of course, you could look at the actual story of OMD and say that it's technically MJ, not Peter, that makes the deal and that the deal itself isn't seen as a good thing necessarily but a self-sacrificing gesture that comes with a terrible price so it's definitely not portraying the deal in a positive light but haven't we rehashed OMD enough?

That is absolutely not what happened. Peter guilt trips Mary Jane into making the deal. Instead of owning up to Peter's mistakes, Marvel's attitude has been to blame the woman, which is incredibly unhealthy and perpetrates absolutely terrible things about the relationships that exist between men and women.

[Rincewind]

I don't know what Quesada's actual quote was. If it's that, it's awfully silly. I feel like he didn't put it in quite those words but anyhow...

It'd be better - and I have read quotes from him to this effect - to just say that having a divorced Peter Parker only compounds the problem of marriage making Peter too old. Having Peter permanently being identified as a divorced dude just doesn't work and immediately ages him in a way that even marriage didn't. The magical solution of wiping away the marriage is infinitely preferable to having him go through a divorce.

As for divorce being seen as worse than making a deal with the devil (or a devil stand-in), the difference would obviously be that one is a real life situation and the other is strictly fantasy.

You could teach kids all day that making a deal with the devil is ok and no actual deals with the devil will ever take place.

I was wondering about that quote. The only explanation from Quesada about not divorcing I read was the "aging" argument. Does anyone have a link to Quesada actually saying what Inverse posted?

[Prof. Warren]

That is absolutely not what happened. Peter guilt trips Mary Jane into making the deal. Instead of owning up to Peter's mistakes, Marvel's attitude has been to blame the woman, which is incredibly unhealthy and perpetrates absolutely terrible things about the relationships that exist between men and women.

How does Peter guilt trip MJ? I don't believe that's what happens at all.

If anything, MJ making the deal shows her to be selfless in her actions and strong enough to make a huge sacrifice so her actions are not a negative on her.

[Celgress]

I was wondering about that quote. The only explanation from Quesada about not divorcing I read was the "aging" argument. Does anyone have a link to Quesada actually saying what Inverse posted?

I also never heard about that exact quote or a paraphrase of it until yesterday. Which is why I was so taken aback. If accurate, shame on Quesada as he should know better than to publically say something so asinine.