Just how old are Peter and MJ supposed to be in Renew Your Vows post-time skip?

[Spidercide]

Okay so I've been buying RYV since the start but haven't gotten around to reading all the issues, just dipping in and out.

However in RYV #21 SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
...we learn that the events of the 1990s Clone Saga occurred including Peter and Mary Jane's miscarriage (for the sake of argument let's just presume it was 100% a miscarriage not a kidnapping or anything).

This has really confused me given how they don't really look as old as they should be.

When you do the math Peter and MJ were 25 and 24 respectively when they got married and like 27 and 26 (respectively, MJ is canonically around a year younger) during the Clone Saga as it originally happened; although the stories incorrectly claim they are 25.

If they had Annie after they lost their first child then they'd have been at least 28 and 27 presuming they had her basically ASAP after losing their first child.

Annie is like 15 years old now meaning that both Parkers should be in their 40s like in Spider-Girl but they don't look the same as they did pre-time skip and even in RYV volume 1 #1 when Annie was a baby.

What gives?

Did they get married and/or get pregnant waaaaaaaaaay earlier in the RYV universe or something?

[HypnoHustler]

I think you’re thinking too much about this. Besides RYV Peter looks much different than MC2 Peter even though they should be the same age. But yes, early to mid 40s sounds about right.

[millernumber1]

I blame bad art.

[Kevinroc]

Pre-time skip, Peter and MJ were in their 30s, presumably early 30s. So... Probably late 30s/early 40s. Probably.

[HypnoHustler]

Late 30s with a 16 year old kid? That means Peter and MJ would’ve been in their early 20s when they had her, which of course is ridiculous.

[Starrius]

Late 30s with a 16 year old kid? That means Peter and MJ would’ve been in their early 20s when they had her, which of course is ridiculous.

Why is it ridiculous???

[HypnoHustler]

Why is it ridiculous???

Because it makes no sense per the MU timeline. It's been stated in the books that 7 years passed between when Gwen died and when Ben Reilly reappeared in the 90s (it's also been stated that Gwen and Peter were cloned 2 years after Gwen died, and then Ben appeared after 5 years on the road, so 2+5=7). Gwen probably died 2-3 years after Peter first became Spidey at 15 as he had already long transitioned into college. I can't imagine less time passed than that. And OMD probably happened 1-2 years after the end of the Clone Saga, which is when Mephisto first showed a projection of Annie who would never be born after the "deal." So RYV is if Peter and MJ stayed together and had Annie, which puts it after OMD. If we put all those years together then Annie was probably born when Peter and MJ were 28 or so. Plus 16 years would put Peter and MJ at 44 or firmly in their mid 40s.

Furthermore, if Peter and MJ had Annie in their early 20s, you'd have to buy into the ridiculous notion that only a year or so had passed since Peter graduated college in the 70s and the post-OMD period in the late 2000s. So it doesn't fit.

[Kevinroc]

Despite recent revelations pointing out some similarities, the RYV timeline is not the same as the 616 timeline.

[Confuzzled]

Don't see RYV Peter and MJ being the type to have a kid in their early 20's though. Mid-40's is feasible (which would put them having Annie in their early 30's/late 20's).

[Digifiend]

Despite recent revelations pointing out some similarities, the RYV timeline is not the same as the 616 timeline.

Yeah, the X-Men are in their 90s costumes on both sides of the timeskip. Yet we know that Civil War 1 was already averted, and that event was some six years after the mutants ditched those costumes.

[leokearon]

Despite recent revelations pointing out some similarities, the RYV timeline is not the same as the 616 timeline.

Exactly, even their wedding photos are different. Remember Peter popped the question two or three times before MJ finally said yes, who's to say she didn't say yes during one of the earlier proposals.

[Spidercide]

I think you’re thinking too much about this. Besides RYV Peter looks much different than MC2 Peter even though they should be the same age. But yes, early to mid 40s sounds about right.

How am I over thinking this?

They should be in their 40s but don't look like it.

Does RYV Spider-Man have magic deaging powers?

[leokearon]

How am I over thinking this?

They should be in their 40s but don't look like it.

Does RYV Spider-Man have magic deaging powers?

They take really good care of themselves. Nick Roche even stated he drew them as such

[millernumber1]

How am I over thinking this?

They should be in their 40s but don't look like it.

Does RYV Spider-Man have magic deaging powers?

Well, I think that any attempt to actually nail down ages that aren't directly stated (and, in fact, even when they are directly stated) is to some extent overthinking it, because editorial and writers will always just retcon the ages to be what they want. I think Peter and MJ in RYV should be between 35 (having Annie at 20) and 45 (having Annie at 30).

I also think the artists aren't good enough to make that kind of distinction.

Lastly, I think trying to nail down the ages of the characters in an alternate universe as if everything happened on the same schedule is a bit unlikely. Everything gets compressed as the stories get older.

[Spidercide]

Because it makes no sense per the MU timeline. It's been stated in the books that 7 years passed between when Gwen died and when Ben Reilly reappeared in the 90s (it's also been stated that Gwen and Peter were cloned 2 years after Gwen died, and then Ben appeared after 5 years on the road, so 2+5=7). Gwen probably died 2-3 years after Peter first became Spidey at 15 as he had already long transitioned into college. I can't imagine less time passed than that. And OMD probably happened 1-2 years after the end of the Clone Saga, which is when Mephisto first showed a projection of Annie who would never be born after the "deal." So RYV is if Peter and MJ stayed together and had Annie, which puts it after OMD. If we put all those years together then Annie was probably born when Peter and MJ were 28 or so. Plus 16 years would put Peter and MJ at 44 or firmly in their mid 40s.

Furthermore, if Peter and MJ had Annie in their early 20s, you'd have to buy into the ridiculous notion that only a year or so had passed since Peter graduated college in the 70s and the post-OMD period in the late 2000s. So it doesn't fit.

Your math is a little off my friend.

ASM #39 states or heavily implies Peter to be 19 years old. We know 2 years elapsed between Gwen’s death and her clone appearing in ASM #144. Peter graduates in IIRC ASM #185. His college education took 4 years meaning that between ASM #31-ASM #121 and ASM #144-ASM #185 another 2 years passed.

Since more time elapsed between ASM #31-121 as opposed to ASM #144-185 I think it’s safe to assume that the former took more than a year, I like to think of it as 18 months total.

So Peter was 20 when Gwen died (5 years after he became Spider-Man, although under Ditko’s run he was clearly not supposed to be 15 when he got his powers) and therefore 27 when the Clone Saga began, putting him closer to 28 (possibly even 29) when they lost baby May.

OMD 100% in the 616 universe did NOT happen just 2 years after the Clone Saga.

In Mackie’s run when Peter and MJ split up they refer to all they’d been through over the previous year. A few issues before MJ’s kidnapper talked about how he began stalking Spider-Man a year before during a battle between Spider-Man and some kind of goblin villain.

Given how Mackie wrote the end of the Clone Saga and also the Final Chapter which were big Goblin stories I think it’s safe to presume it was one of those events rather than like Stern’s Goblins at the Gate, Hobgoblin lives or one of the post-clone saga Green Goblin V appearances.


The Final Chapter is the most likely candidate because it not only directly set up the Mackie/Byrne status quo but also it’s known that between MJ’s abduction and return in the Mackei run 6 months elapsed.

It’s a REALLY big stretch to argue that EVERYTHING between the end of the Clone Saga in 1996-ASM vol 2 #13 in 2000 happened across just 6 months. In fact the very first post-Clone Saga story takes place a little over a month after the last clone saga issue (PPSM #75 was set on Oct 31st Halloween and the next issue Spec #241 is stated to be early December).


Consequently we are saying that the entire post-clone saga era, plus the time skip between Final Chapter and ASM vol 2 #1 plus everything between hat and ASM vol 2 #13 all happened in 5 months!

Makes no sense, hence presuming it was the Final Chapter Goblin story makes much more sense.

This puts the start of the JMS run as 1 year and a few months after the Clone Saga ended. The Book of Ezekiel (roughly halfway through JMS’ run) stated Morlun appeared a year ago and since he was in JMS’ opening arc that means halfway through the JMS run we’re already over 2 years away from the Clone Saga. Add on all the time that occurred between Book of Ezekiel and OMD and you can maybe even make up a whole other year, making OMD happen around 3 years after the Clone Saga.

Which would have made Peter around 30-31 at the time (also confirmed because Jessica Jones who was in the same year as him in high school was stated to be 30) and MJ 29-30 because she’s around a year younger (Parallel Lives says she was 14 when Peter was 15).

Regarding RYV we also have to reconcile how RYV volume 1 seemed to imply that Annie was born shortly after Peter and MJ got married in the early 90s status quo. The fashions of a lot of characters and their status quos are similar to the Michelinie/McFarlane/Larsen/Bagley era, with Venom being a prime example.

So the idea at first seemed to be that Annie was born before the clone saga and instead of Mayday.

This goes against what Nick Lowe said in 2015 that it was what if OMD never happened.


In RYV vol 2 Conway and some other people implied the premise was that it was what if BND never happened but Conway also said that in his mind it was like imaging a universe where all the bad 90s stories like the clone saga and Scott and Jean’s wedding never happened. He also said the universe was slightly altered because it was evident the Regent hadn’t ruled New York for like 7-8 years and the heroes who died in RYV vol 1 were clearly not dead, e.g. the X-Men. Also Carol Danvers was Captain Marvel not Ms. Marvel which is again weird with the timeline.

This muddied the water a hell of a lot even before we now learn that actually the Clone Saga DID happen, baby and all.

So...why do Peter and MJ look like they’ve barely aged since their early-mid 20s?

Did they get pregnant before they got married and the Clone Saga happened shortly thereafter?

It doesn’t seem likely because in Spider-Verse #2 when we first meet RYV Peter he lists off events in his life that fall in line with the post marriage status quo.


It’s weird.