What Jean did was 100% right.
I have absolutely no issue with it all.
Yes
No
What Jean did was 100% right.
I have absolutely no issue with it all.
Last edited by Username taken; 06-12-2018 at 10:01 PM.
Most of the leaders of the X-men have done things that would be considered worst than what Jean did.
As far as your whole argument of her holding herself to the highest standards for ethical use of her powers, she is a telepath her power is to use her mind to transport thought or information from one mind to another.
Jean did not do any of your examples.
So basically she did what 1996 Nate Grey would of done? Hmmmm...Jean Grey is WAY TOO MUCH of a good girl character to be doing that.
She did not alter their minds, she showed them each other's feelings. Nothing wrong with that.
"COURAGE, DON'T YOU DARE LET ME DOWN"
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This is a faulty argument. That someone else has done something worse would never make something else wrong suddenly right.
Please see my point and that of others that telepathy is a minefield of a power for heroes. Also, telepathy can also just be speaking into peoples minds as if you were standing there with them and talking aloud.As far as your whole argument of her holding herself to the highest standards for ethical use of her powers, she is a telepath her power is to use her mind to transport thought or information from one mind to another.
But you agree those characters invading other peoples minds is unethical as an act regardless of the outcome?Jean did not do any of your examples.
One of my favorite characters back in the day. I have the entire X-man series. And yup, Nate used his powers unethically all the time.
I would not consider it a faulty argument since we are talking about the X-men here. They are not the team that strives to be the ones that win the ethical battle. X-men leaders do what is best to keep the X-men and mutants alive. They are not the epitome of ethics or morality. They are not the standard superheroes.
Yeah and if she just spoke into their minds i think the same argument would be in place.
Yes i agree those examples were unethical. I don't consider Shadow king taking over Muir Island made it a paradise. It kinda resembled just a twisted version of fight club to me.
Their entire original purpose was to absolutely be the ethical example for mutants to follow and for humanity to see that mutants were capable of incredible good.
If their goal is to "keep X-men and the mutants alive" then something like Avalon is a better method.
I have never had a problem with a telepath speaking to someone. Humans communicate with one another...it's normal. So long as they aren't plucking thoughts out of a persons head (IE: limiting themselves to what the person is actually saying) it isn't a problem at all ethically speaking.Yeah and if she just spoke into their minds i think the same argument would be in place.
Everyone seemed to be enjoying it. And, by everyone, I mean the Shadow King...who was effectively every one.Yes i agree those examples were unethical. I don't consider Shadow king taking over Muir Island made it a paradise. It kinda resembled just a twisted version of fight club to me.
#TheShadowKingDidNothingWrong
#YesIamAnOldSchoolShadowKingFanboy
Gosh, you do have a good sense of drama...
The situation was a bit different here. The soldiers threatened the mutants to shoot them. That is a very very different situation than me walking into school.
She was doing this in a in life threating situation. So yes then it okay for me.
"COURAGE, DON'T YOU DARE LET ME DOWN"
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No their purpose was not absolutely to be the ethical example for mutants. He formed the school so mutants could have a safe haven to learn using their powers
Well communicating to someone mind is the same as sharing some thoughts. So i don't see how that is more ethical than what jean did.
The entire Island was being controlled by the Shadow King. So everyone was not enjoying it he was controlling them.
"Under a cloud of increasing anti-mutant sentiment, Professor Xavier created a safe haven at his Westchester mansion where he could train young mutants to use their powers for the betterment of mankind"
More on Marvel.com: http://marvel.com/universe/X-Men#ixzz5IHbVW520
The X-men were explicitly deployed by Professor X as superheroes after he trained them to use their powers, not to hide, but to help and protect people from evil mutants.
The entire purpose of the school was to teach mutants...to be ethical. To be heroes.
Seriously have you read X-men?
In fact, this is the entire reason Amelia Voght left Xavier: she wanted mutants to hide away and not reveal themselves. Xavier wanted them to help humanity with their powers as superheroes.
This is explicit, on-panel fact.
A telepath sharing their thoughts with someone is them sharing their own thoughtsWell communicating to someone mind is the same as sharing some thoughts. So i don't see how that is more ethical than what jean did.
From now on just substitute the word "body" for "thoughts"
It is ethical for someone to share access to their body with someone else. It is unethical to share another persons body with someone else because you do not have the right to decide what they do. Similarly, a person does not have the right to have access to another persons body whenever they want.
A telepath does not have a right to intrude on the thoughts of someone else without consent just like you do not have the right to access someones body without consent.
It is a very simple concept.
If he's amplifying their own impulses , they're explicitly enjoying it. They may not be in an uninfluenced frame of mind...but they are enjoying it.The entire Island was being controlled by the Shadow King. So everyone was not enjoying it he was controlling them.
Last edited by PunishedFire; 06-12-2018 at 11:26 PM.
After reading all this it occurs to me that the people here quite often don't seem to fully grasp ethics vs morality, and honestly most people don't.PunishedFire
That being said... you've put forth one of the most well thought out arguments I've ever read here on these forums.
I read the book, and superficially I thought "Oh well at least she didn't mind wipe them" but I see now that really its the type of thing that makes indiviuals instead of nations hate mutants.
My priority is enjoying and supporting stories of timeless heroism and conflict.
Everything else is irrelevant.