Do you think that what Jean Grey did in X-Men Red #5 was ethical?

[blanchett]

It's been a talking point in other threads, very strong opinions either way.

In this issue Jean merges the mind of the soldiers and the mutants. She said it was to make the soldiers unstand why what they were doing was wrong and to see the other side. However she doesn't request their consent.



At least in the past Jean had an issue with this herself when she was a non psi.


Was she in the right?

[Michael Watkins]

more ethical than eating a planet of broccoli people

[Maestroneto]

Emma said it best.

[KurtW95]

Absolutely not.

[Tycon]

Are you asking if it was ethical for Jean to put the essence of those mutants' situation, feelings, and concerns into the soldiers' minds? Who were about to make it rain bullet shells???

[Disciple of Redd]

Lol they were brandishing guns at unarmed innocents.

Even pretending there is merit to some other argument about not violating would-be murderers' rights to murder is beyond stupid.

I get devil's advocacy, but come on.

The funny thing (the thing that really blows up the nonsense argument against her action) is that she still didn't even force a change in their minds. They made their minds up on their own after hearing the other people's thoughts.

And to another point: they were brandishing guns in the first place just because some politician said to.

[blanchett]

Are you asking if it was ethical for Jean to put the essence of those mutants' situation, feelings, and concerns into the soldiers' minds? Who were about to make it rain bullet shells???

I am asking if she was right to use the method she did without their consent. I think for me, I don't think Jean needed to use that method which is at least morally grey. She could have just thrown up a forcefield. She's an omega level mutant not just for her telepathy but her telekinesis too. I think she had options.

It's like what Xavier did with the Znox except I don't think he had other options whereas Jean actually did seem to have options.

[PowerPlay25]

Yawn. More Jean Grey must always be within bounds of certain decorum, while other X-Telepaths are allowed to do anything and everything to win.

I think all of the Anti-Jean sentiment is making me MORE of a fan of the character.

[Grey]

By nature, telepathy is a Dubious power.

But I honestly think this is one of the least unethical things a telepath has ever done to diffuse a violent situation. I can’t really come up with a reason why it’s even controversial but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Showing someone another person’s perspective for a brief moment... just doesn’t sound very bad to me. At all. I think using telekinesis to freeze someone in place is a worse offense than this. No choices were taken away from the affected individuals.

[Zodlike]

Yawn. More Jean Grey must always be within bounds of certain decorum, while other X-Telepaths are allowed to do anything and everything to win.

The double-standard exists to neuter and discredit characters they don't like (but often pretend to). Expect Jean to get the kind of hypocritical moralizing that Cyclops was subjected to.

[blanchett]

I think one of the reasons it's resonating with me is that I am watching Westworld and how the importance free will is with that series and those characters. spoilers:

Dolores alters Teddy's code. The aim so she says is to make it so he can survive in their world. She actually bumps up his intellect so he can better understand what is going on around him. Even though it's an "improvement", the show treats what she does as a violation. Teddy wanted to stay Teddy. Dolores doesn't have his consent. There's nothing more intimate than someone's own mind.

end of spoilers.Widely different situations but I can see a similarity in adjusting someone.

I am not saying that Jean's intentions weren't pure but if she does it without consent when to me she had other options (Jean and Ororo on their own could have dealt with that situation) was she right to act how she acted?

I also don't hate Jean Grey. It's kind of a stupid reaction to me critizing her actions in one comic book.

Not crazy about how she's been handled but I am not convinced it's not part of a larger arc for her yet.

[Tycon]

I am asking if she was right to use the method she did without their consent. I think for me, I don't think Jean needed to use that method which is at least morally grey. She could have just thrown up a forcefield. She's an omega level mutant not just for her telepathy but her telekinesis too. I think she had options.

It's like what Xavier did with the Znox except I don't think he had other options whereas Jean actually did seem to have options.

I don't really think the ethics of Jean's approach should be based on the consent of the war criminals that were about to kill a ton of mutants. And it isn't like Jean stripped them of their free will. Hell, I think one or two of the soldiers still wanted to kill a mutie or two.

[Grey]

I think one of the reasons it's resonating with me is that I am watching Westworld and how the importance free will is with that series and those characters. spoilers:

Dolores alters Teddy's code. The aim so she says is to make it so he can survive in their world. She actually bumps up his intellect so he can better understand what is going on around him. Even though it's an "improvement", the show treats what she does as a violation. Teddy wanted to stay Teddy. Dolores doesn't have his consent. There's nothing more intimate than someone's own mind.

end of spoilers.Widely different situations but I can see a similarity in adjusting someone.

I am not saying that Jean's intentions weren't pure but if she does it without consent when to me she had other options (Jean and Ororo on their own could have dealt with that situation) was she right to act how she acted?

I also don't hate Jean Grey. It's kind of a stupid reaction to me critizing her actions in one comic book.

Not crazy about how she's been handled but I am not convinced it's not part of a larger arc for her yet.

Can you elaborate on how she “adjusted” anyone or violated their fee will?

In my eyes she did the equivalent of giving employees a lecture on cultural sensitivity. Except she did it in a split second.

I concede that ANY telepathy use in someone’s mind is unethical, I just feel it’s a matter of HOW unethical. and imo this scenario is like the least unethical violation I can think of.

As an unrelated note, I do love westworld and all the Ethical questions it begs. That show really makes me think.

[jmc247]

Yawn. More Jean Grey must always be within bounds of certain decorum, while other X-Telepaths are allowed to do anything and everything to win.

I think all of the Anti-Jean sentiment is making me MORE of a fan of the character.

Well, not all of that is fans fault as she preached hard to others against things like killing Cassandra Nova in the past which fits Jean as a character and her worldview of being Xavier's ultimate disciple.



Talking about if Jean is living up to the moral standard she set for herself will be par for the course and actually good for Red.

[AbnormallyNormal]

Jean is clearly a bit drunk on her abilities and is going too far for sure. She is Messianic at this point more or less.