Do you think that what Jean Grey did in X-Men Red #5 was ethical?

[Jokerz79]

I have no issue with what Jean did with the telepathic link since she only linked the mutants and humans and not alter their thoughts. But there is a bigger question not being asked did the X-Men cause the situation that led Jean to do that and I say yes. The soldiers weren't attacking the mutants they specifically said they were taking them into detention and to surrender it was the X-Men who came guns blazing with lightning and claws out which made the soldiers shoot in retaliation. If Jean was willing to use telepathy why not just do it from the start and not cause a potential blood bath?

[PunishedFire]

I have no issue with what Jean did with the telepathic link since she only linked the mutants and humans and not alter their thoughts. But there is a bigger question not being asked did the X-Men cause the situation that led Jean to do that and I say yes. The soldiers weren't attacking the mutants they specifically said they were taking them into detention and to surrender it was the X-Men who came guns blazing with lightning and claws out which made the soldiers shoot in retaliation. If Jean was willing to use telepathy why not just do it from the start and not cause a potential blood bath?

Solid point.

The X-men really did seem to escalate the situation. No need to pop claws and come out like a buncha crazies like that. Talk about failing Danger Room de-escalation training

[JasonEsta]

It was not so bad compared to other topics most behaved better than expected.


When I saw the title thought a war between Jean fans or between Jean and Emma fans would start on the second page.

Plus some have raised good points and liked the poll result most approve Jean's position but a significant number disapprove is fair.

Emma doing this stuff is OK..she's a villain pretending to be a hero. She schemes and lies...she likes to sneak around with men and other shaky deeds. Jean Grey doesnt do that and that's why it needs to be examined when she goes extremist. She's not Madelyne Pryor.

[blanchett]

Emma doing this stuff is OK..she's a villain pretending to be a hero. She schemes and lies...she likes to sneak around with men and other shaky deeds. Jean Grey doesnt do that and that's why it needs to be examined when she goes extremist. She's not Madelyne Pryor.

Emma wouldn't have the options that Jean has though either. Jean is an omega level telekinetic as well as telepath. Jean had other options to resolve this conflict.

[Strong Girl Daken]

That statement actually suggests that I am an SJW. LOL

Are you following the logic of your own allegory? You seem to be struggling here.

Maybe take 20 minutes or so, rethink your logic and then come back and try again.

I said we wouldn't have this conversation if you were a witch because if you were a witch you couldn't go on a SJW witch hunt, which is what you are here to do.

Get it now?

[PunishedFire]

I said we wouldn't have this conversation if you were a witch because if you were a witch you couldn't go on a SJW witch hunt, which is what you are here to do.

Get it now?

Yes, I get it.

Sorry you're dealing with the issues you're dealing with. Hope you work through them and come out a better person on the other side.

[remydat]

Here's Jean forcefield being used to defend against one of the olders of the universe.


Here's Jean flying through space close to a star and encases Binary in a force field.


Here's Jean stopping a moving plane.


I mean come on, as if that ARMY was really a threat to even a non Phoenix powered Jean Grey. She didn't need to use her telepathy. She chose to use her telepathy. She could have picked everyone up and just flew off. She had options.

Having options is irrelevant. The only thing relevant is whether her response was commensurate with the threat.

The threat was mass murder and everything including killing is a valid and ethical option. You can say you would have preferred she use TK but in the heat of battle the law nor anyone that observes normal ethical standards expects someone to always choose the best and most preferred option. Jean chose an option that was appropriate to address the threat as there is not simply one ethical option. There can be multiple.

[Strong Girl Daken]

Yes, I get it.

Sorry you're dealing with the issues you're dealing with. Hope you work through them and come out a better person on the other side.

I'm glad your misunderstanding is cleared up. Do you think implying that I am unwell is an effective strategy? And you think you're qualified to judge what is ethical or not?

[remydat]

I haven't seen you address that at all.

haven't seen you address that at all.

at all.

I addressed it in my edited response and the conclusion is that your argument has no merit. No mutant claimed they felt violated so you have no basis to make that claim. You are not in the story so you can't claim violation on their behalf.

What panel are you pointing to to claim they feel violated? As I would not feel violated at all so you saying you would is meaningless unless you are Tom Taylor.

[Fantasy Free Me]

I don't see anything wrong with Jean's decision.

[PunishedFire]

I addressed it in my edited response and the conclusion is that your argument has no merit. No mutant claimed they felt violated so you have no basis to make that claim. You are not in the story so you can claim violation on their behalf.

What panel are you pointing to to claim they feel violated? As I would not feel violated at all so you saying you would is meaningless unless you are Tom Taylor.

As already pointed out in the police officer example, the 2nd party does not necessarily need to be upset with the action for it to be a breach of ethics on the part of the 1st party.

I never claimed they felt violated. That is a claim you have entirely invented.

The breach of ethics occurs upon the action being taken, not necessarily upon the reaction of the 2nd party. It's a simple concept in ethics.

[remydat]

I have no issue with what Jean did with the telepathic link since she only linked the mutants and humans and not alter their thoughts. But there is a bigger question not being asked did the X-Men cause the situation that led Jean to do that and I say yes. The soldiers weren't attacking the mutants they specifically said they were taking them into detention and to surrender it was the X-Men who came guns blazing with lightning and claws out which made the soldiers shoot in retaliation. If Jean was willing to use telepathy why not just do it from the start and not cause a potential blood bath?

And if a mutant refused to surrender they would have been executed so no Jean and Co did not escalate things. It was obvious the soldiers were told kill anyone that refused to be violated.

[remydat]

As already pointed out in the police officer example, the 2nd party does not necessarily need to be upset with the action for it to be a breach of ethics on the part of the 1st party.

I never claimed they felt violated. That is a claim you have entirely invented.

The breach of ethics occurs upon the action being taken, not necessarily upon the reaction of the 2nd party. It's a simple concept in ethics.

That is your opinion for which you have zero evidence. Further when it was done to prevent mass murder, your argument is even weaker.

This would be like arguing if I push someone out of the way of a truck and they scratch their leg, I acted unethically. That argument is absurd.

You are arguing for some extremely pedantic form of ethics devoid of common sense.

[Celestialbodies]

Emma wouldn't have the options that Jean has though either. Jean is an omega level telekinetic as well as telepath. Jean had other options to resolve this conflict.

She's also done more for less, as have other telepaths, like literally last week.



Why this is a discussion is a mystery I'm all for honest conversations about the ethical implications of a telepath using/abusing their abilities, the key word is honest. Why not talk about some of the casual usages of telepathy each week, but to single Jean Grey out is ingenuine.

[Jokerz79]

And if a mutant refused to surrender they would have been executed so no Jean and Co did not escalate things. It was obvious the soldiers were told kill anyone that refused to be violated.

Jean herself said the soldiers were just scared kids with orders there appeared to be no malice on their part Jean could had just put a Telekinetic bubble around her and the mutants and said they're coming with us and left. The X-Men into a sovereign nation and escalated a hostile situation when there was other options IMO.