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  1. #91
    Incredible Member Skedatz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    I found the first book incredibly dull, and haven't been a fan of the Nadia Pym character even slightly. But you're right that little girls loved this series, so that's pretty great. Sometimes we have to just step back and realize something isn't for us.

    It does still suck that now Nadia has had two solo series before Janet even headlines a solo one-shot of her own. I get it, Jan's going to be a big part of this, but it's still Nadia's story and not Jan's at the end of the day.

    And dear god I hope they retcon Letha and Poundcakes being members of GIRL, or at least have them go back to their evil ways. It's not even because there aren't many female villains to begin with; it's because Letha is super evil and made army vets with PTSD kill each other to get Punisher's attention, and had no qualms about it. The characterization of the Grapplers was just so out there and unforgivable if you're one of the twelve people that remember who they are.
    Truly this is the hardest lesson for a comic fan, is just in realizing not every single title should cater to our particular tastes without condemning the book as "garbage." (Not saying you did that, just sort of expanding on it)

  2. #92
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    On one hand, I was not a fan of the premise of the first book and this seems like a continuation

    on the other hand...Gurihiru...

    I guess im gonna have to get this one. dammit.

    I'm assuming this is the result of the switch up of CB and Axel, but why are this and iceman getting relaunched so soon? They didn't perform that well and weren't that critically received if I remember.

  3. #93
    Mighty Member CrimsonEchidna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    I don't think anyone is saying the previous volumes of the book sold well or not, the discussion is that we aren't privy to the entire information regarding sales data.

    The diamond ranking only show the rankings but not the actual figures (people on the internet compute that). And we don't have any knowledge about sales from ancillary sources. Thus, we literally cannot make any informed judgement about sales or lack thereof. We are allowed to believe or disbelieve but the fact that Marvel is putting out the title again and the writer citing good trade sales would suggest that Unstoppable Wasp did get some traction before. It might not be massive seller like Batman or Spider-man but clearly some people bought the book enough for Marvel to consider re-launching.

    Point further, Jim Zub cites not just scholastic sales, but also his book being sold to Public and School Libraries and at theme parks as the reason why The Figment was successful. He also points to a comicbeats article which highlights the fact that, surprise surprise, all the best selling graphic novels last year were all children books, something we wouldn't know just by judging based on Diamond Statistics.
    The artist formerly known as OrpheusTelos.

  4. #94
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    So if trades are whats keeping these books alive and the floppy sales are abysmal...why doesn't marvel just start releasing graphic novels instead?

  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danileriver23 View Post
    So if trades are whats keeping these books alive and the floppy sales are abysmal...why doesn't marvel just start releasing graphic novels instead?
    I'd guess because, unless single sales are so abysmally low that they don't even cover printing costs, it's still a revenue stream, just not the primary one. It'd be an inversion of what we're accustomed to thinking of when it comes to the DM, that pre-order sales for single issues are the life's blood of a book and collections are a nice bonus.

    This Week's Comics: Manifest Destiny #36, Wicked + Divine #37 & 38, Extermination #1

  6. #96
    Incredible Member Skedatz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danileriver23 View Post
    So if trades are whats keeping these books alive and the floppy sales are abysmal...why doesn't marvel just start releasing graphic novels instead?
    Two reasons I imagine:

    - They didn't expect the original trades to take off, and an influx of new readers is what they're hoping will sell both floppies and trades. Basically they're trying to sell to a new readerbase.

    - Trade issuing alone is a tremendous investment for something they're not positive is going to sell as well as the first set of trades. For all they know the original crowd doesn't really want more and so by investing all that money in trades alone they will have to lose a lot of money in two or three trade releases before they can stop. Floppies allow Marvel to know if the crowd that bought the first trades are still interested in the new series without the same investment.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skedatz View Post
    Two reasons I imagine:

    - They didn't expect the original trades to take off, and an influx of new readers is what they're hoping will sell both floppies and trades. Basically they're trying to sell to a new readerbase.

    - Trade issuing alone is a tremendous investment for something they're not positive is going to sell as well as the first set of trades. For all they know the original crowd doesn't really want more and so by investing all that money in trades alone they will have to lose a lot of money in two or three trade releases before they can stop. Floppies allow Marvel to know if the crowd that bought the first trades are still interested in the new series without the same investment.
    I'd say the second option would be most likely. Although if that ise the case, it begs the question as to why it got dropped in the first place.

  8. #98
    Incredible Member Skedatz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danileriver23 View Post
    I'd say the second option would be most likely. Although if that ise the case, it begs the question as to why it got dropped in the first place.
    Trade sales are significantly slower than floppy sales by nature in comics. They're released well after the fact and companies are usually making decisions by then. So by the time they dropped the axe the trade numbers probably weren't in yet, or were just starting to roll in.

  9. #99
    Blue Snowmod Nyssane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Hey, Songbird (when she was Screaming Mimi) was a Grappler too you know!
    Yeah, and she left because she wasn't evil enough for them.

    Poundcakes, maybe. I could see her reforming if a better opportunity came along. But she also likes dat $$$.

    Letha and Lascivious (the first Titania) are straight-up evil after their resurrection from the Hood. They're also lovers, which is why it's odd seeing one without the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skedatz View Post
    Truly this is the hardest lesson for a comic fan, is just in realizing not every single title should cater to our particular tastes without condemning the book as "garbage." (Not saying you did that, just sort of expanding on it)
    Oh I wholeheartedly agree. If more people realized that not everything was for them, we wouldn't have such toxic fandoms. It makes me super happy that a bunch of little girls (and some boys too I'd imagine) have Nadia back.

  10. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    They’re straight-up lying. Occam's razor. If there were good numbers, they would release them.
    Oooooooooooooof course they are. They're saying something that runs counter to the narrative you've created, so they're dirty rotten liars.

    Also, hey, what are Batman's total sales numbers? Not just the Diamond estimates, but how it does in bookstores, how it sells on Comixology, how it sells on Amazon, how it sells to libraries. What are the actual numbers for Batman? Go on, find them, I'll wait. Oh hey, turns out, those numbers aren't put out. Because no publisher actually releases any actual sales data about individual comics. This shit ain't tough to grasp. And yet, here you are. Insisting that Marvel would release sales data for Unstoppable Wasp when they haven't released sales data for any other series. Not Unstoppable Wasp. Not Deadpool. Not Avengers. Not X-Men. None of them. Because they never release that data.

    But you've somehow come to the conclusion that Marvel, as a business, wants to lose money so they can . . . what? What do you think is the reason Marvel is willing to lose money publishing Unstoppable Wasp? What's their pay-off?

    You didn't answer this earlier, so let me ask again: What do you believe is the end goal of Marvel publishing Unstoppable Wasp?
    Step 1. Publish Unstoppable Wasp.
    Step 2: ???
    Step 3: Profit!
    What's step 2? What's the benefit to Marvel?

    Quote Originally Posted by King_Thor13 View Post
    Looks like she, Arno Stark and Madison Jeffries are joining the new SHIELD led by Leonardo DaVinci anyway. Civilian supporting characters are fine when done well: MJ, Jarvis, Flash Thompson, Pepper Potts, Tom Corsi, Ganke, Claire Temple, Foggy Nelson etc. But so many of them are forgettable and incredibly vanilla. I'd appreciate some existing recognisable characters being present. I struggle to remember the names of the supporting cast for books like Ms Marvel, Hawkeye etc. We often spend little time with them and they aren't quite special enough to garner attention imo. Lila Rhodes or Silah Burke working with Nadia would make me happy.
    Gasp! But Ms. Marvel has the best supporting cast! Nakia, Zoe, Bruno, Mike, Gabe, Aamir. Josh, before he turned villain. They're the best gang.

  11. #101
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    A) Batman sells around 100,000.
    B) Ms. Marvel and Captain Marvel are terrible and sell below 15,000 and should’ve been cancelled long ago.
    C) They don’t care about profit. And Disney doesn’t crack the whip because the real money is in movies and toys.
    D) Enough with the phantom numbers. There’s no way that they’d be significant enough to make difference.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  12. #102
    Mighty Member nnelg's Avatar
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    If this book stared the Wasp I would try it. Since it stars a cheap ripoff then I will ignore it. Its a shame that sales figures don't matter to Marvel anymore.

  13. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    A) Batman sells around 100,000.
    B) Ms. Marvel and Captain Marvel are terrible and sell below 15,000 and should’ve been cancelled long ago.
    C) They don’t care about profit. And Disney doesn’t crack the whip because the real money is in movies and toys.
    D) Enough with the phantom numbers. There’s no way that they’d be significant enough to make difference.
    Holy. Shit. Holy shit. Do you actually believe that the direct market is the only way that comics are sold?

    Your first response just straight-up ignored the point of my question. How does Batman sell in trades at bookstores? How well does it sell on Comixology? How does it sell on Amazon? How does it sell to libraries?

    Are you actually so hung up on the direct market that you think none of those other markets amount to anything? That the direct market is the only metric that matters?

    Christ. You genuinely have absolutely no knowledge of the modern comic book industry.

    And to say Marvel doesn't care about profit. Holy shit. This is just . . . how can you be this legitimately clueless? This is a stunning display of ignorance.

  14. #104
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Tone down the stunned act. The direct market is still the largest market. The other stuff is mostly inconsequential. Though I understand you may be in denial because you want the new characters to be a success.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  15. #105
    Mighty Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    I’m drawing my conclusion based on the evidence. You’re concluding that phantom numbers based on claims of people who didn’t provide any evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And there is no evidence proving the existence of the phantom numbers.
    We've established Diamond Charts are not the full picture, so your only evidence is half-assed. And if you think it's not and you're absolutely right, then why don't you provide evidence for that? Aren't you all about showing, not telling? Then show us. Show us the evidence Marvel is lying. Show us the evidence that numbers outside of the DM are not good and don't influence their publication at all. You want evidence that Marvel is telling the truth, but you have no commitment to show us you're telling the truth, so how can anyone take you seriously? So yeah, show us your solid, convincing evidence and maybe this discussion can finally get somewhere. I'll be waiting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skedatz View Post
    Trade sales are significantly slower than floppy sales by nature in comics. They're released well after the fact and companies are usually making decisions by then. So by the time they dropped the axe the trade numbers probably weren't in yet, or were just starting to roll in.
    Yeah, I think that's exactly what happened, and this is why the Direct Market has become outdaded and is setting up books with potential for failure. I think every book deserves the chance to be published up until they fully analize how the trades are doing, and if the numbers are sustainable, they should keep it going until they're not anymore. I've noticed that ongoings getting cancelled before the trade even comes out has become less recurring if compared to the early ANAD days, when more books were getting the axe earlier on, so maybe Marvel is finally realizing they can't keep being so dependent on single-issue sales, and that's a good thing.
    Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 06-14-2018 at 07:22 PM.

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