New Unstoppable Wasp Series.

[Skedatz]

Those Ant-Man/Wasp books weren’t ongoing series—just one shots. Also, Spider-Man is a different situation, Miles got to build his audience in a separate universe before joining the 616-universe while Peter has had his own book (and often multiple titles) for practically his entire existence.

I don't think it's Nadia holding Janet back. I can't imagine someone at Marvel said, "Alright. We finally can have a Wasp book, but it's Janet or Nadia." And someone picked Nadia and everybody agreed there can never be another Wasp book.

Miles took over a popular character's book as opposed to getting a spin-off. His popularity is what earned him a spin-off. Janet's popular, but she's not Miles popular. That's what really holds her back. Marvel just doesn't think Janet can hold a solo when characters like the Thing can't hold a solo. Janet and Nadia's audiences are two different audiences.

[The_Greatest_Username]

Spider-Man's not the only example. Captain America, Wolverine, Green Lantern come to mind.

The title of “Wasp” doesn’t carry as much weight as those, so it still doesn’t work. Plus, again, a lot of those titles featured characters who built their own audience before being given their own book. Both Falcon and Bucky were well liked characters before being given the Cap role and their own book. Laura had her own book several times before she was Wolverine. The Green Lantern situation is probably similar because a lot of Hal Jordan fans were mad when he was made a villain, killed off, and replaced with Kyle—though I don’t think that’s what Marvel hopes to achieve with Nadia.

[ed2962]

I don't think that's a problem at all, because Marvel Comics created Hope. If anything, they are the ones who have the original rights over the character, and the movies borrowed from them like most of the other characters. I think the biggest thing they had against Hope in the comics is that she was a straight-up villain in that universe and they wanted a hero, so they took a different approach and decided to create something that resembled her in some form, but it was still their own thing. I actually think that's way less annoying than completely changing everything about the original character out of the blue just for synergy, like they did with Star-Lord.

I hadn't read that comic...interesting!

[The_Greatest_Username]

I don't think it's Nadia holding Janet back. I can't imagine someone at Marvel said, "Alright. We finally can have a Wasp book, but it's Janet or Nadia." And someone picked Nadia and everybody agreed there can never be another Wasp book.

Then why was Nadia given a book almost immediately while Janet can’t even be given a one-shot to gauge interest?

Miles took over a popular character's book as opposed to getting a spin-off. His popularity is what earned him a spin-off. Janet's popular, but she's not Miles popular. That's what really holds her back. Marvel just doesn't think Janet can hold a solo when characters like the Thing can't hold a solo. Janet and Nadia's audiences are two different audiences.

So why does Nadia get a book before Janet, and then gets another chance despite her book’s mediocre sales? Of course Janet isn’t as popular as Spider-Man. She’s never going to be, but that’s not a reason she shouldn’t be given a chance.

[Skedatz]

Then why was Nadia given a book almost immediately while Janet can’t even be given a one-shot to gauge interest?



So why does Nadia get a book before Janet, and then gets another chance despite her book’s mediocre sales? Of course Janet isn’t as popular as Spider-Man. She’s never going to be, but that’s not a reason she shouldn’t be given a chance.

Because Marvel likes occasionally launching new characters, especially if they think there's an audience out there they haven't reached yet. That's pretty much Nadia's concept. Reach out to a slightly younger, slightly more female crowd. Nadia got the okay because she's very different from the rest of the more dramatic Marvel lineup and to work with the emerging new faces of Marvel's heroes such as Ms. Marvel and Miles.

Sales are sort of weird since we know the book did okay and then did gangbusters in trades.

I was referring to Spider-Man and how he grew in popularity. He took part in "another person's" book and made it his own from no appearances beforehand where Janet has been featured in team books for decades and guest stars often. The way he gained popularity compared to the way Janet has gained it are two completely different beasts and shouldn't be compared. One shouldn't be given a shot over the other between these two because it's hard to compare what method made them popular. And while I agree that just because one is more popular doesn't mean the less popular one shouldn't also get a shot, I don't believe everybody should just get a shot if the company doesn't feel like it's ready to do it. Having them rush out a Wasp book might be more harmful in the long run. If Marvel rushes a book to market just to "feed the fans," and it fails, they might take it that Janet cannot sell in anything but a team book. And that would be bad. For her to get a solo book something about her will need to change to justify a solo adventure that's not a mini series.

However, if Nadia does well Marvel might be emboldened to have more female centered books. And if Janet is a big part of why Nadia succeeds, then Janet might have a better chance.

[Captain M]

I'm sorry but rushing out a Janet solo made me laugh a lot.
You're absolutely right, they should wait a few centuries to see if she catches on hahahaha


Look, only reason Nadia was created is because of MCU. There is no alternative there, it's not a secret. The choice they made was to make her solo that tone which clearly worked out well. They were going to make a Nadia solo anyways, they just had to decide on a tone. They didn't give her a solo because they came up with a good story, it's the opposite. "So we are making this new Wasp and have to promote her. How do we approach?"

spyderbytes is making good points.

You can like Nadia and acknowledge Janet is being pooped on, it's okay. You don't have to try to justify a way why Nadia is getting more attention than Janet. It's not just. But it's no longer making me not enjoy Nadia. I look forward to the return of TUW

[The_Greatest_Username]

Because Marvel likes occasionally launching new characters, especially if they think there's an audience out there they haven't reached yet. That's pretty much Nadia's concept. Reach out to a slightly younger, slightly more female crowd. Nadia got the okay because she's very different from the rest of the more dramatic Marvel lineup and to work with the emerging new faces of Marvel's heroes such as Ms. Marvel and Miles.

Sales are sort of weird since we know the book did okay and then did gangbusters in trades.

I was referring to Spider-Man and how he grew in popularity. He took part in "another person's" book and made it his own from no appearances beforehand where Janet has been featured in team books for decades and guest stars often. The way he gained popularity compared to the way Janet has gained it are two completely different beasts and shouldn't be compared. One shouldn't be given a shot over the other between these two because it's hard to compare what method made them popular. And while I agree that just because one is more popular doesn't mean the less popular one shouldn't also get a shot, I don't believe everybody should just get a shot if the company doesn't feel like it's ready to do it. Having them rush out a Wasp book might be more harmful in the long run. If Marvel rushes a book to market just to "feed the fans," and it fails, they might take it that Janet cannot sell in anything but a team book. And that would be bad. For her to get a solo book something about her will need to change to justify a solo adventure that's not a mini series.

However, if Nadia does well Marvel might be emboldened to have more female centered books. And if Janet is a big part of why Nadia succeeds, then Janet might have a better chance.

Look, I’m not here to petition for Nadia’s death or cancellation. I’m just venting my frustration as a fan of Janet’s. I’m also aware the her situation is different from Spider-Man’s, that’s why I’m not the one comparing them.

I don’t think you’re understanding how frustrating it is to hear the suggestion that Jan’s success depends on if her spin-off succeeds before Janet even gets her first opportunity.

[DragonsChi]

Patsy was a creation of the 70's and Sheena was discontinued in the 50's, not even to see reprint until the 80's. Most girl comics around this time usually featured girls doing "girl" things like gymnastics or being on a social scene. A female centric superhero tale wouldn't really be in play until later on. Females in superhero comics at this time tended to play love interest or general supporting cast.

It's also arguable about comic demographics in the 60's. They were undoubtedly still "childish," but were starting to quickly mature for a growing older audience. But it should also be noted that a lot of adults were reading comics in the following decades. So it's not like adult readers just popped up on the scene ten years ago.

So it's not really a "Cutting off their nose," so much as it's, "We're uncomfortable with this." You could argue it's one and the same, but it's something comics have needed for a while.

The point of my message was that girls had comics that where made for them and the interest at the time. Superheroes were not one of those heavy interest by in large.

And despite what some claim here, the truth is the perception of Superhero comic was that they were for more nerdy/unpopular individuals as a whole over a certain age. Of cources some girls would want to read them but as a whole it was unpopular to do so and has been for a very long time. Thats perception still exist today and is slowly being brooken down.

As to the final remark...I’m not against inclusion. In fact I’m all for it. Its just obvious that the way Marvel is going about it has been terrible, dividing, and to some point excluding of audiances on both sides of the fence. A fence that they had a major hand in creating.

[Skedatz]

I'm sorry but rushing out a Janet solo made me laugh a lot.
You're absolutely right, they should wait a few centuries to see if she catches on hahahaha


Look, only reason Nadia was created is because of MCU. There is no alternative there, it's not a secret. The choice they made was to make her solo that tone which clearly worked out well. They were going to make a Nadia solo anyways, they just had to decide on a tone. They didn't give her a solo because they came up with a good story, it's the opposite. "So we are making this new Wasp and have to promote her. How do we approach?"

spyderbytes is making good points.

You can like Nadia and acknowledge Janet is being pooped on, it's okay. You don't have to try to justify a way why Nadia is getting more attention than Janet. It's not just. But it's no longer making me not enjoy Nadia. I look forward to the return of TUW

That's not what I'm saying at all.

Rushing one out is basically saying, "Marvel NEEDS a Janet book. Make Wasp book happen for no other reason than to have a Janet book." Then just putting pen to paper and getting one out like some sort of X-title. Rushing one to the press just to have it on the press is a bad idea. Especially if the goal is to have a long standing Janet book as opposed to getting one shots. Which is fine, too. In fact I think a mini series would probably be a really good idea.

I'm not saying Janet isn't being pooped on, either. I've made it clear I like Janet quite a bit. But her audience is in the Avengers field and she doesn't lend to a solo outing no matter how much we want it. And that's okay to recognize as well. Like I told spyderbytes, and they agreed (and probably said it first), the relative popularity of a character shouldn't determine the success of another character. A person shouldn't like/dislike another character because of the relative success or representation of another character, as comics aren't a "this or that" scenario and probably never will be. Unless it's butting up against Marvel's distribution list of any given month. But Janet doesn't get a book because Nadia has one isn't the case. It's just Janet has never had a solid enough foundation for Marvel to base an entire solo book around her. So putting a book with her name on it and throwing it out there just to appease people who want one would be kind of a rush job. Unless, like I said before, she underwent some big changes to justify the interest of a solo book. And yeah, she's plenty interesting on her own, but Marvel has just never thought she was solo book interesting. Is it partly because Marvel has had issues with making female centered books? Maybe. Is it time Marvel said, "Hey, we have a strong female leadership role and Janet can be spearheading her own book?" Yeah. But I think Marvel feels Janet has never sold well without a team and that's why she just doesn't get her solo.

Look, I’m not here to petition for Nadia’s death or cancellation. I’m just venting my frustration as a fan of Janet’s. I’m also aware the her situation is different from Spider-Man’s, that’s why I’m not the one comparing them.

I don’t think you’re understanding how frustrating it is to hear the suggestion that Jan’s success depends on if her spin-off succeeds before Janet even gets her first opportunity.

I wouldn't assume you want Nadia gone. You've never given any indications you dislike Nadia, just the thought that Nadia's own series might somehow threaten Janet's future possibility. That's not the same thing and I don't want to paint you as someone who hates one character because she "steps on the toes" of another. Because I get it. We like our favorite characters to hit the big solo spotlight and we all have them. And it extra sucks when a newer, somewhat derivative character gets the chance the older character never got. And you SHOULD feel upset Janet isn't getting a solo, because I fully agree she should've at least had one solo attempt after all these years. Unfortunately, I don't realistically see Janet getting one without a major revamp or a really big surge of interest from outside parties. And I see TUW giving her the boost she needs to really make it to where she should have been all along. Because, well not as much as you, but I'd really like to see Janet get a solo mini at least. She deserves it and I think a mini would really serve to flesh out some of the complications of her character and give her a bigger footing. And I'm not saying you should feel good we're getting some Janet as opposed to no Janet, because getting a taste isn't the same thing as eating the meal. You shouldn't.

[Skedatz]

The point of my message was that girls had comics that where made for them and the interest at the time. Superheroes were not one of those heavy interest by in large.

And despite what some claim here, the truth is the perception of Superhero comic was that they were for more nerdy/unpopular individuals as a whole over a certain age. Of cources some girls would want to read them but as a whole it was unpopular to do so and has been for a very long time. Thats perception still exist today and is slowly being brooken down.

As to the final remark...I’m not against inclusion. In fact I’m all for it. Its just obvious that the way Marvel is going about it has been terrible, dividing, and to some point excluding of audiances on both sides of the fence. A fence that they had a major hand in creating.

You had mentioned titles related to the superhero field so I just wanted to clarify what girl comics were like in the 60's.

Comics had a weird flux in the 60's as they went from truly kid stuff to developing more adult and teenage storylines. By the 70's and 80's, comics had developed into a more adult oriented field. Part of why girls didn't read comics is, like you said, social perception. Though for girls it was more just considered "unladylike" or "for boyish girls," and the like. Comics during the 70's and 80's would be increasingly popular for teenagers, and then finally adults, and then back to kids during the 90's.

I don't think you're against inclusion. Apologies if that's what came across, because I didn't take it that way. I meant more that the backlash is less people seeing Marvel making "radical changes" or "cutting their nose to spite their face," and more, "We're uncomfortable with the themes presented," and people are just sort of shouting about it. Not that you personally don't want inclusion.

[Captain M]

I see what you mean better now. But a couple things I disagree with:

I don't think there has to be a reason for anyone to get a solo book other than Marvel actually wanting to publish it. I think dozens and dozens of books they published in the last few years is proof of that.
Marvel can't feel Janet has never sold well without a team. That's just not possible. For that to happen they actually have to feature her where she isn't in a team. Remember, she hasn't even got a one shot of her own, ever. They have nothing to base that conclusion from.

Anyways I think it's pointless to talk about a Janet solo because I fully believe even if a writer pitches them a good Janet solo book it'll be ignored because at least for the moment, they want to make Nadia be the only Wasp that has that kind of spotlight.

[DragonsChi]

I see what you mean better now. But a couple things I disagree with:

I don't think there has to be a reason for anyone to get a solo book other than Marvel actually wanting to publish it. I think dozens and dozens of books they published in the last few years is proof of that.
Marvel can't feel Janet has never sold well without a team. That's just not possible. For that to happen they actually have to feature her where she isn't in a team. Remember, she hasn't even got a one shot of her own, ever. They have nothing to base that conclusion from.

Anyways I think it's pointless to talk about a Janet solo because I fully believe even if a writer pitches them a good Janet solo book it'll be ignored because at least for the moment, they want to make Nadia be the only Wasp that has that kind of spotlight.

Which is an incredible shame for everyone. A perfectly good and relatively untapped character waiting to be used but is disregarded for another quick easy fix.

[Skedatz]

I see what you mean better now. But a couple things I disagree with:

I don't think there has to be a reason for anyone to get a solo book other than Marvel actually wanting to publish it. I think dozens and dozens of books they published in the last few years is proof of that.
Marvel can't feel Janet has never sold well without a team. That's just not possible. For that to happen they actually have to feature her where she isn't in a team. Remember, she hasn't even got a one shot of her own, ever. They have nothing to base that conclusion from.

Anyways I think it's pointless to talk about a Janet solo because I fully believe even if a writer pitches them a good Janet solo book it'll be ignored because at least for the moment, they want to make Nadia be the only Wasp that has that kind of spotlight.

I agree that Marvel would have to release a Janet solo to justify any feelings that she's more a "team character" and not a "solo character." Unfortunately, I really just think Marvel feels like she works better as a feature but not the main star. I'm hoping with her appearances in TUW and upcoming Iron Man that she gets a little bit more spotlight and hopefully that sort of branching out gets interest for at least a mini series. Which I think we all agree is WAAAAAAY overdue. Janet has enough ties all over the MU that it's pretty surprising she hasn't.

Though I'm not sure if Nadia is really what holds Marvel back. At least not entirely. Aside from what I think Marvel feels about Janet, I'm also sure Marvel wants to see if Nadia sells well enough to invest in the brand, even though I think that's a bit short sighted on their side since that's a slightly different audience. But I also think nobody at Marvel has really just suggested the changes which could be made and the story which could be told to get Janet into a solo. I've heard the idea floated around about the possibility she isn't "young enough," in that they feel the existing reader base isn't interested in reading about a middle aged woman and a newer reader base won't connect. Even though I think that's silly.

[leokearon]

Anyways I think it's pointless to talk about a Janet solo because I fully believe even if a writer pitches them a good Janet solo book it'll be ignored because at least for the moment, they want to make Nadia be the only Wasp that has that kind of spotlight.

I don't think that's true. No-one wanted to do a Scarlet Witch series until James Robertson pitched it and Marvel liked it. So the reason that Jan hasn't gotten her own ongoing is because no writer has bothered to think of an idea

[Captain M]

I don't think that's true. No-one wanted to do a Scarlet Witch series until James Robertson pitched it and Marvel liked it. So the reason that Jan hasn't gotten her own ongoing is because no writer has bothered to think of an idea

No, I mean sure maybe that is also the case but she simply can't get a solo book at the moment. It's a corporate decision. They even avoid putting 2 Wasps side by side in covers that are outside of Nadia's book or simple stuff like promotional covers/images/pictures.
Remember that huge multi-cover art with hundreds of marvel characters and tons of wolverines? Janet was intentionally excluded from that for example.

So no, I'm fairly certain they won't give her a role such as headlining her own book at least for the time being because while they do let her exist to some extent, she has to be kept below Nadia for obvious synergy reasons.

Edit: Surprisingly this is only the case for comics because Janet keeps getting merchandise in a decent rate. She has 2 statues coming out this year among other stuff happening.