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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    I think that was one of the things that bothered me with the first book. Nadia having only regular people as supporting cast. She didn't do much superheroing at all... in fact I thought she didn't do much, period. Personally, it makes me feel disconnected from the superhero book I'm reading when there's not superheroing involved.

    Waid writes her more grown-up IMO. Whitley writes her as an 8-year-old left alone in a candy shop for too long. In any of her other appearances, she's more tolerable. But hey, that's just me
    Comes down to different tastes. I love the mundane in superhero comics. Big epic battles are all fine and good, but a couple superheroes going out for coffee? That's the shit I go for. Maybe the new series will be a bit more heroics-oriented. It does have two other superheroes, Janet and Bobbi, as supporting characters. I could definitely see the book having the cast go in a more pro-active direction, trying to solve problems before they become disasters, and running afoul of villains in the process. We'll see. Either way, Whitley's earned my trust, and Gurihiru are amazing, so I'm very much in for this.

    In Unstoppable Wasp, Whitley definitely writes a more hyper-active Nadia. And I honestly just find that take on the character to be adorable. She's so high-energy, so irrepressibly joyful, and it makes me smile. And it makes the moments where she's more serious that much more effective. The fight against Letha and Poundcakes wouldn't have had the same impact if Nadia had been more grown-up prior to it. (I honestly loved that fight, and Nadia's subsequent feelings of guilt about it. It was such a powerful scene, and spoke volumes about Nadia.)

  2. #77
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    trying to solve problems before they become disasters
    Definitely. In fact doing just that is why the Champions ended up in Canada in the current arc. G.I.R.L. had detected a problem.

  3. #78
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post


    I would disagree with Waid writing her better. Beyond that, Waid would not write Unstoppable Wasp. He might write a comic with that name, but it would be a very different comic, and would aim for a very different audience. And this book is being brought back for the audience who bought the previous run. I mean, I wouldn't be likely to buy a Wasp series by Waid.
    Well at this point it mostly comes down to taste. Waid mostly writes Nadia in Avengers vs Kang, Champions/Avengers and Champions: Secret Empire tie-ins. Avenger X is a collab with Whitley. Waid manages to write Nadia's personality different from Kamala and Riri but portrays her with the right balance of being a rookie yet being competent with her powers and intelligence. People gave her crap for not getting along with Parker and Vision but Wasp hating Spidey thing was just some bad gag and having her be the one to berate Vision for trying to create another Viv made sense since they're both descendants of Pym.

    Whitley's Nadia is kinda like Star from Star Butterfly where her personality seems dumbed down and made hyperactive for some quick laughs.

    The formation of G.I.R.L. gets dragged out. Whitley lost me with the "my girlfriend has a bomb in her head" issue. That dragged and Whitley normally gets shit done. Taylor had the same plot in ANW and it was this ridiculous fun story where Laura decided to steal Pym Particles from Janet instead of just asking her.

  4. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Definitely. In fact doing just that is why the Champions ended up in Canada in the current arc. G.I.R.L. had detected a problem.
    Yeah, if you're looking to stop problems, Canada's a good place to start, because we get up to a lot of garbage in the Marvel Universe. We are the worst.

  5. #80
    Mighty Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Do you have proof of this? Were the numbers are actually shown and where they said this?

    Not that I don't believe you I would just like to know where the information is coming from.
    We don't have the numbers 'cause Marvel doesn't reveal numbers for anyone. But yes, both the writer and the editor have claimed trade sales helped the book come back:

    https://twitter.com/jrome58/status/1006649114514292737
    https://twitter.com/AlannaWrites/sta...49976980635648

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member Captain M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    There are questions and suggestions about this subject that sound like attacks, but probably aren't. So I hope my question to you doesn't come off as an attack, because that's not the case at all. I'm simply curious.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you not in favor of the vol. 1 of this book? I seem to remember you didn't have much kind words about it when it was being published, and even - dare I say - cheerful about its cancellation? Is it the promise of having Jan as a regular on the book that changed your mind?



    I think that was one of the things that bothered me with the first book. Nadia having only regular people as supporting cast. She didn't do much superheroing at all... in fact I thought she didn't do much, period. Personally, it makes me feel disconnected from the superhero book I'm reading when there's not superheroing involved.

    Waid writes her more grown-up IMO. Whitley writes her as an 8-year-old left alone in a candy shop for too long. In any of her other appearances, she's more tolerable. But hey, that's just me
    Janet being a regular supporting character is of course a big deal breaker. But I also realized how much this book was loved by little girls and what it meant to them. This book did some good and I'm glad it'll continue doing so.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    We don't have the numbers 'cause Marvel doesn't reveal numbers for anyone. But yes, both the writer and the editor have claimed trade sales helped the book come back:

    https://twitter.com/jrome58/status/1006649114514292737
    https://twitter.com/AlannaWrites/sta...49976980635648
    I think the sooner people accept that the Diamond estimates of sales aren't the be-all and end-all regarding a book's future, the better.

    I'm honestly pretty indifferent about all this but one thing i like about this announcement (and the Iceman one) is watching the "Comicsgaters" completely lose their minds.
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

  8. #83
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    We don't have the numbers 'cause Marvel doesn't reveal numbers for anyone. But yes, both the writer and the editor have claimed trade sales helped the book come back:

    https://twitter.com/jrome58/status/1006649114514292737
    https://twitter.com/AlannaWrites/sta...49976980635648
    They’re straight-up lying. Occam's razor. If there were good numbers, they would release them.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  9. #84
    Mighty Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    They’re straight-up lying. Occam's razor. If there were good numbers, they would release them.
    Occam's Razor refers to the idea that in explaining something, no more assumptions should be made than what is necessary. If the people who are actually privy of Marvel sales tell you the book is back because of sales, the simple and logic explanation is that this is exactly what happened. The minute you refuse that idea and want to believe that is wrong, you're coming up with an assumption beyond of what's the simplest answer, so you're breaking the very definition of Occam's Razor.

    Also, your ''if the numbers were good, we would see them'' logic is extremely flawed, because as far as I'm concerned, there is literally not one publisher in western comics that reveals their sales numbers to the public, not even the sales to the big, flagship books. And no, the Diamond charts are not full numbers provided by publishers. They're only estimates from Diamond regarding the direct market. So, in that scenario, there is no reason why Marvel and their sales people would take the time of their day to specifically reveal how much ONE book is selling because some people felt entitled to this information on the internet.

    And even if they DID give you this specific information for some reason, what's the point? The likes of you and Kintor would still find a reason to deny it, dismiss it and try to argue those books shouldn't exist anyway, because that's the kind of shit you do on every thread.
    Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 06-14-2018 at 02:41 AM.

  10. #85
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    I’m drawing my conclusion based on the evidence. You’re concluding that phantom numbers based on claims of people who didn’t provide any evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And there is no evidence proving the existence of the phantom numbers.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  11. #86
    Mighty Member King_Thor13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Much as I would kill for more Toni Ho, I think there's a value in Nadia having normal people around her. Honestly, I enjoy civilian supporting characters in general. It bothers me when superheroes only really interact with other superheroes. It makes them feel so much more disconnected from the people they're saving. I like when the characters have people around them who keep them a little more grounded.
    Looks like she, Arno Stark and Madison Jeffries are joining the new SHIELD led by Leonardo DaVinci anyway. Civilian supporting characters are fine when done well: MJ, Jarvis, Flash Thompson, Pepper Potts, Tom Corsi, Ganke, Claire Temple, Foggy Nelson etc. But so many of them are forgettable and incredibly vanilla. I'd appreciate some existing recognisable characters being present. I struggle to remember the names of the supporting cast for books like Ms Marvel, Hawkeye etc. We often spend little time with them and they aren't quite special enough to garner attention imo. Lila Rhodes or Silah Burke working with Nadia would make me happy.

  12. #87
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    You mention Flash (RIP) and Pepper, but they're no longer civilians, having become Venom/Anti-Venom and Rescue.

    They did miss an opportunity with Lila. Make her Riri's rival - and she should've been the new War Machine when Rhodey died. He's back now so unless they do it like Steel (where John Henry Irons and his niece, new Titans member Natasha, share the mantle) that ship has sailed.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    I’m drawing my conclusion based on the evidence. You’re concluding that phantom numbers based on claims of people who didn’t provide any evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And there is no evidence proving the existence of the phantom numbers.
    I don't think anyone is saying the previous volumes of the book sold well or not, the discussion is that we aren't privy to the entire information regarding sales data.

    The diamond ranking only show the rankings but not the actual figures (people on the internet compute that). And we don't have any knowledge about sales from ancillary sources. Thus, we literally cannot make any informed judgement about sales or lack thereof. We are allowed to believe or disbelieve but the fact that Marvel is putting out the title again and the writer citing good trade sales would suggest that Unstoppable Wasp did get some traction before. It might not be massive seller like Batman or Spider-man but clearly some people bought the book enough for Marvel to consider re-launching.
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

  14. #89
    Blue Snowmod Nyssane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain M View Post
    Janet being a regular supporting character is of course a big deal breaker. But I also realized how much this book was loved by little girls and what it meant to them. This book did some good and I'm glad it'll continue doing so.
    I found the first book incredibly dull, and haven't been a fan of the Nadia Pym character even slightly. But you're right that little girls loved this series, so that's pretty great. Sometimes we have to just step back and realize something isn't for us.

    It does still suck that now Nadia has had two solo series before Janet even headlines a solo one-shot of her own. I get it, Jan's going to be a big part of this, but it's still Nadia's story and not Jan's at the end of the day.

    And dear god I hope they retcon Letha and Poundcakes being members of GIRL, or at least have them go back to their evil ways. It's not even because there aren't many female villains to begin with; it's because Letha is super evil and made army vets with PTSD kill each other to get Punisher's attention, and had no qualms about it. The characterization of the Grapplers was just so out there and unforgivable if you're one of the twelve people that remember who they are.

  15. #90
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Hey, Songbird (when she was Screaming Mimi) was a Grappler too you know!

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