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  1. #3736
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    I can imagine a Disney new cut would lean more to the Tom Holland's Spiderman movies. A full head anti clockwise path for the source material. There was already uproar when the movie was rated pg 13 since most horror films needs to be R to capture the horror angle and new mutants is based on horror xmen stories called the demon bear saga.

    I think the movie had a chance, I would have placed my bet on it far better than a Kinberg directed dark phoenix movie but when rumors started flying disney was buying fox, the date got pushed back, more reshorts and finally fox going under, its over for this movie and we are now in a place of what might have been as we know what the future now holds for new mutants, the oringal concept alone is not a disney forumla movie as disney would never make a horror movie staring teenagers. its impossible.

    With Spiderman gone, Disney would need to capture the superficial kid friendly angle again and new mutants are the best heroes to do so in disney' eyes because all disney would see is young teens, which is quite dumb because Cable took in the new mutants and trained them to be x-force, a more brasher and violence x-men team and most of their comics featured darker fantasy concepts.
    Funny how the situation with the movie turned out, given that, having read some of the earliest issues, the series seems about as far away from horror as you can get, Brood attacks and Demon Bears notwithstanding. I mean, I would've pegged the comics for a PG-13 movie adaptation myself.
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  2. #3737
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Funny how the situation with the movie turned out, given that, having read some of the earliest issues, the series seems about as far away from horror as you can get, Brood attacks and Demon Bears notwithstanding. I mean, I would've pegged the comics for a PG-13 movie adaptation myself.
    Brood attacks and Demon Bears does sound like horror depending on what the director wanted. The adaption in film would have worked better as r rated because it's horror. Only 10% of pg 13 horror films turns out good. Pegging the movie for pg 13 because Disney cannot make r rated movies is not enough points to make the movie pg 13. there is more actual evidence the movie would have worked better as R based on past horror movies like Carrie and IT or even X-Men's own Legion on FX that had heavy horror elements. Wait... didn't Legion first appear in a new mutants comics? New Mutants #25.

    We all know what Legion brought to the TV superhero stale genre. it has been called the greatest marvel tv show of all time, maybe not since Daredevil is a contender but Legion is the most artistic and most original comic show ever, sometimes too smart for its own good. Do you remember this horror scene from the show?



    This tv show only exists because of the new mutants comics. Looks like all the evidence for new mutants would have supported a r rated horror movie more than pg 13, no offense Disney. This is about xmen comics getting done the best as they can be without worrying about boundaries. Its not about the disney structured formula that can't allow R. That is not X-Men's problem after 3 proven successful R movies and TV show.

    Although new mutants now has a bigger problem once they become MCU Spiderman lite. I won't be surprised if Disney ends up not releasing the original movie, to protects themselves artistically. if Disney does release the original movie and it turns out quite promising, only for them to replace it with something else in the lines of their humor-lite MCU movies. I think many people would be unhappy about it. It would be like replacing Spectacular Spiderman for Disney XD Spiderman.


    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    Okay, thanks!
    He reminds me of Josh Holloway from lost, who was originally going to play Gambit in X2 and X3. How time flies.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 08-30-2019 at 03:47 AM.

  3. #3738
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Brood attacks and Demon Bears does sound like horror depending on what the director wanted.
    Those seemed like exceptions to the rule of what the series was mainly about.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
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  4. #3739
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    A) thinking a New Mutants movie should be rated R (i.e. no unaccompanied *teens* admitted), as a result of
    B) thinking a horror movie needs to be rated R to be good

    is totally blowing my mind on both “comic fan” and “movie fan” fronts. A true multipronged attack. Like, how literal minded must one be to reduce horror movie quality to how much gore appears on screen, and how could anyone that literal minded get anything out of a Claremont New Mutants comic anyway. Implication is the lifeblood of both of those things, and in that sense it’s a surprisingly fitting combo. What do you think the Demon Bear storyline would be rated if they just filmed it panel by panel? (trick question NO ONE should be admitted to see a “white people transformed into native americans” subplot in 2020)

  5. #3740
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    Have you ever noticed that, if you leave X-Men Origins and The Last Stand out of the equation, the TWO TIMELINES model works so nicely?

    I would leave The Last Stand in and just pretend X-Men Origins is an alternate universe - later, modified by Deadpool at the end of Deadpool 2.

    We can just assume that there are two Angels and the Apocalypse Angel was NOT Warren.

    Everything is fine.

    X-Men Origins has way too many contradictions with X1-X3, above all.

  6. #3741
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    Have you ever noticed that, if you leave X-Men Origins and The Last Stand out of the equation, the TWO TIMELINES model works so nicely?

    I would leave The Last Stand in and just pretend X-Men Origins is an alternate universe - later, modified by Deadpool at the end of Deadpool 2.

    We can just assume that there are two Angels and the Apocalypse Angel was NOT Warren.

    Everything is fine.

    X-Men Origins has way too many contradictions with X1-X3, above all.
    It works best if you assume the First Class timeline was always separate universe, and that the time travel in DoFP worked the same was as it does in the comics.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

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  7. #3742
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOTALITY View Post
    A) thinking a New Mutants movie should be rated R (i.e. no unaccompanied *teens* admitted), as a result of
    B) thinking a horror movie needs to be rated R to be good

    is totally blowing my mind on both “comic fan” and “movie fan” fronts. A true multipronged attack. Like, how literal minded must one be to reduce horror movie quality to how much gore appears on screen, and how could anyone that literal minded get anything out of a Claremont New Mutants comic anyway. Implication is the lifeblood of both of those things, and in that sense it’s a surprisingly fitting combo. What do you think the Demon Bear storyline would be rated if they just filmed it panel by panel? (trick question NO ONE should be admitted to see a “white people transformed into native americans” subplot in 2020)
    Its bigger than new mutants. its about the genre of horror. most pg 13 horror movies are hardly good. there is a better chance you would have a better horror film if you make it R than pg 13. I remember Bonne's saying he was channeling Stephen King. um, King does not do pg 13. Carrie and IT is a clear signal.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 09-02-2019 at 01:17 PM.

  8. #3743
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    This take is just reductive to a degree that it feels like it comes from a different universe where horror movies didn’t exist before the 70’s and there aren’t countless great ones from the last 50 years that wouldn’t need to be rated R. (with the catch that some of them are rated R because of different standards at the time, and because pg-13 wasn’t a rating until 1984)

    And these days you can get away with so much in a pg-13 film that the difference between that and R seems even smaller, and would surely (hopefully) be overridden by the more pressing question of, why even make a New Mutants movie if you’re gonna gear it more towards adults than teens. I mean, I’m 33, but I’m not *that* selfish (not saying you are, just maybe looking at the big picture in a different way)

    Being creative within certain set parameters is pretty much what every Marvel or DC story ever, in any medium, has had to do. The ability to depict more onscreen violence and sexuality and more than one F-bomb is not some magical uncapped state of blue sky creativity. Anyone writing or directing one of these things has to do so within parameters that those holding the money and intellectual property think will be profitable and represent the brand well, at that can be narrower than you might like to think. For Deadpool and Logan they decided an R-rated tone would be best and went with that. But if the creatives aren’t allowed to follow their muse to, like, a whole world of unmarketable things, saying they can or can’t show someone getting disemboweled feels pretty small. And a whole world of great violence-light horror movies suggests that if someone can’t make a scary/suspenseful/compelling film without showing the disembowelment, they probably weren’t going to make a great one with that.

  9. #3744
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Its bigger than new mutants. its about the genre of horror. most pg 13 horror movies are hardly good. there is a better chance you would have a better horror film if you make it R than pg 13. I remember Bonne's saying he was channeling Stephen King. um, King does not do pg 13. Carrie and IT is a clear signal.
    Uncle recently It was a network tv miniseries and even the Shining King hated the film which I love but he hated it and did a tv miniseries that was truer to his vision. King isn't the go to guy for a R rated horror example.

  10. #3745
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    It works best if you assume the First Class timeline was always separate universe, and that the time travel in DoFP worked the same was as it does in the comics.
    And that is why Fox should have just stopped with DOFP.

    I remember origins though, sabertooth and wolverine are brothers although X1 barely references that they are. It was almost kind of like star wars. Anakin and C3PO were buddies in the prequels and in the original trilogy, Vader barely acknowledges him, C3PO does not even tell the others Anakin created him.

    the truth is prequels always create problems and inconsistencies but sometimes you need to know when to stop. Fox didn't and they need to take their share of responsibilities of the future failures they suffered because of this with X-men Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 09-03-2019 at 02:23 PM.

  11. #3746
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Anakin and C3PO were buddies in the prequels and in the original trilogy, Vader barely acknowledges him, C3PO does not even tell the others Anakin created him.
    I thought it was strange that Lucas worked around the Threepio problem by having Bail Organa order his memory wiped, but R2D2 is just there, remembering everything but just not telling anybody.

  12. #3747

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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    Have you ever noticed that, if you leave X-Men Origins and The Last Stand out of the equation, the TWO TIMELINES model works so nicely?

    I would leave The Last Stand in and just pretend X-Men Origins is an alternate universe - later, modified by Deadpool at the end of Deadpool 2.

    We can just assume that there are two Angels and the Apocalypse Angel was NOT Warren.

    Everything is fine.

    X-Men Origins has way too many contradictions with X1-X3, above all.
    It says a lot about just how bad those two movies were when the whole narrative works better when you take them out of the equation.
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  13. #3748
    Peter Scott/Scott Peter SpiderClops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    Have you ever noticed that, if you leave X-Men Origins and The Last Stand out of the equation, the TWO TIMELINES model works so nicely?

    I would leave The Last Stand in and just pretend X-Men Origins is an alternate universe - later, modified by Deadpool at the end of Deadpool 2.

    We can just assume that there are two Angels and the Apocalypse Angel was NOT Warren.

    Everything is fine.

    X-Men Origins has way too many contradictions with X1-X3, above all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    It works best if you assume the First Class timeline was always separate universe, and that the time travel in DoFP worked the same was as it does in the comics.
    Do you guys even hear yourselves?

    It totally makes sense... if I literally ignore whole movies and completely make stuff up!
    Last edited by SpiderClops; 09-03-2019 at 08:15 AM.
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  14. #3749
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    Well, now we can just pretend that the discrepancies were due to the FOX-men films taking place in the different lives of Moira MacTaggert.

  15. #3750
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    I thought it was strange that Lucas worked around the Threepio problem by having Bail Organa order his memory wiped, but R2D2 is just there, remembering everything but just not telling anybody.
    I thought C3P0 had a back up system. The other inconsistency was Leia saying Padma died when she was young but the prequels states leia was an infant when Padme died. There is an age issue in star wars, same as first class. In X1, xavier said he was a boy when he met Magneto and I think he said he was 17. This does not match first class unless Xavier graduated oxford at 17, One can buy xavier calling himself a boy. In England most unmarried men in the 60s were called boys.

    For me though, it was when they time jumped 20 years in X-Men apocalypse that it all got too much and ridiculous. As if it could not get any worse, it was basically supposed to be a fresh reboot that was impossible to sell to fans or an audience because of DOFP and Logan and the links the first class cast had to those films.

    Both Star wars episode 2 and DOFP were sequels that took place 10 years after the first prequel films. Another disadvantages of prequels, they love to age things so fast to catch up to the main story. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It worked mostly for star wars, it did not work at all for x-men.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 09-03-2019 at 09:38 AM.

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