The future of the X-Men on the big screen

[yogaflame]

This is why I hate the sliding timescale. Storytelling becomes a slave to nostalgia, and you can't take the story in new directions because god forbid you actually CHANGE things. I can't believe I'm quoting this, but sometimes you have to let the past die, and kill it if you must.

There's a reason why stories with constantly evolving plots are gaining market share and critical success over media that relies on a strict adherence to status quo.



Especially since if Claremont didn't write it, someone else WOULD have.

First of all, did you read Claremont's run? It was constantly evolving and changing. There was forward momentum. Characters got older, learned, moved on. It's the post-Claremont writers that have a problem with empty nostalgia and trying to regurgitate old stories ad infinitum(with decreasing returns).

Furthermore, it is one thing to try to downplay Claremont's significance to the franchise, but it is quite another to suggest that anyone else would have done the same or better. That is completely rude and insane. Where are all the other best selling 17 year runs in comics, then? Past or present? Claremont's achievement is singular and worthy of praise.

Certainly the market has changed, the medium no longer fosters such intimate, drawn out storytelling outside of more creator-owned properties(such as The Walking Dead spearheaded consistently by Robert Kirkman), but what was, was. Claremont's work still represents the best of the franchise, and the MCU would be wise to mine what the Fox-Men films largely overlooked in their ignorance and hubris.

[Hall]

Uncle Ben Spider-Man 1967, Thomas and Martha Wayne Galactic Guardians 1985, Almost the entire original cast Transformers 1986, sorry X-Men TAS wasn't first and those other shows kept their dead dead.

TAS was the game changer for dealing with death, night of the sentinels became one of the most famous superhero episodes ever aired on tv. Also notice none of what you mentioned are Marvel current cartoons. marvel cartoons are legitimately bad today for very good reasons.

It has been very easy for DC to top Batman TAS, Marvel has yet to top X-Men TAS, Spiderman TAS, Evolution or Spectacular Spiderman. It does mirror with movies too and also video games. the pattern is there. Disney marvel have the lowest bar in everything thanks to their silly theory this stuff is just fun entrainment for kids.

[CRaymond]

*changes back into a lurking member of CBR*

[Heroine Addict]

... not even Roy and Neal's run could course correct before the title was sent into reprints for 5 YEARS!...

Delayed sales data had something to do with that.

TAS & what it was influenced by, has to be taken into conteXt, timewise. And at the end of the day, it's still & will always be a Saturday morning cartoon aimed at kids, and at the most... the young @ 💚.

Have to say also, this thread is suffering from much:

... just like the Dark PhoeniX thread was, and which presumably, led to it getting closed.

[Jokerz79]

TAS was the game changer for dealing with death, night of the sentinels became one of the most famous superhero episodes ever aired on tv. Also notice none of what you mentioned are Marvel current cartoons. marvel cartoons are legitimately bad today for very good reasons.

It has been very easy for DC to top Batman TAS, Marvel has yet to top X-Men TAS, Spiderman TAS, Evolution or Spectacular Spiderman. It does mirror with movies too and also video games. the pattern is there. Disney marvel have the lowest bar in everything thanks to their silly theory this stuff is just fun entrainment for kids.

Dealing with it Most of Season 3 of Transformers was Rodmius Prime dealing with the burden of Leadership since Optimus Prime died. Morph was forgotten about after Night of Sentinels until he popped up alive in the Season Two opener when it was revealed he was alive. X-Men TAS was great but there is no reason go say untruths about other shows which paved the way for cartoons like X-Men TAS.

[U.N. Owen]

Just don't go way of FoX-Men and the comics with their mutant discrimination angle. As I said before, it's tiring and dumb for this angle to keep being played. I hated it in the comics; I hated it in the films; and I'll hate it in the MCU.

It's staggering how much of an audience you can drive away with your doom and gloom. It's always discrimination here, genocide there, Sentinels here, riots there. It gets repetitive. This isn't some kind of mature work of genius; it's a tired cliche, an unintentional parody.

[Heroine Addict]

... the movies. ... They looked primarily to Claremont.

... Claremont's work... the Fox-Men films largely overlooked in their ignorance and hubris.

=/=

10char

[yogaflame]

=/=

10char

The best parts of Magneto come from Claremont. The best parts of the Fox-Men films are botched versions of Claremont's Magneto. The Anya scene, for instance, was only brought to screen(butchered) because Fassbender told them about it(having actually done the research for his character). Singer and Kinsberg were completely ignorant of that story as of the DoFP press junket, a full 14 years into the Fox-Men era.

There's a ton more of Claremont lore the Fox-Men films never looked at or attempted to bring to the screen.

To put it in small, digestible bytes for you.

[Jokerz79]

To be fair, Transformers G1 didn't kill anyone until The Movie. And Prime did come back (and Starscream was immortal).

So did Morph comeback and while killed in the Movie Prime's death was constantly addressed in the series as Rodimus dealt with being the new leader.

As for Nostalgia I agree its a double end sword I mean can any of us say we'd take the same risk with a newer character compared to one we grew up reading?

[Hall]

Just don't go way of FoX-Men and the comics with their mutant discrimination angle. As I said before, it's tiring and dumb for this angle to keep being played. I hated it in the comics; I hated it in the films; and I'll hate it in the MCU.
.

It's not tiring and dumb it's a constant angle in X-Men comics, hardly among the hated part of it. you know how just because slavery ended and the holocaust was stopped does not mean ethnic people still don't experience prejudice on a day to day basis? that is smart not dumb, dumb will be pretending this stuff don't happen anymore. once disney get rids of that. their movies will be seen as dumbed down and bad.

It's staggering how much of an audience you can drive away with your doom and gloom. It's always discrimination here, genocide there, Sentinels here, riots there. It gets repetitive.

I think this is the way some have now come to terms Marvel movies are nothing more but spoofy kids entertainment with no substance and are now trying to force that on X-Men movies, it won't work. that shipped has sailed thanks to the X-men 1s and Logans of the world.

The gloom and doom audience still showed up for DOFP, TDK and Logan. I get it, this may not be the kid's angle audience but it is still a mighty audience. Disney is about to piss off. have they not learned form Star Wars?

This isn't some kind of mature work of genius; it's a tired cliche, an unintentional parody

The days when movies like X-Men 1, TDK, X2, Spiderman 2 were seen as mature work of comic genius because they chose to not make empty popcorn comic movies with the excuse it just for kids are sure missed, no wonder Marvel movies can never escape their shadows.

[Wolverine12]

This has gotten way off topic and turned into silly bickering. Get back on topic or the thread gets closed.

[Baron of Faltine]

TAS was the game changer for dealing with death, night of the sentinels became one of the most famous superhero episodes ever aired on tv. Also notice none of what you mentioned are Marvel current cartoons. marvel cartoons are legitimately bad today for very good reasons.

It has been very easy for DC to top Batman TAS, Marvel has yet to top X-Men TAS, Spiderman TAS, Evolution or Spectacular Spiderman. It does mirror with movies too and also video games. the pattern is there. Disney marvel have the lowest bar in everything thanks to their silly theory this stuff is just fun entrainment for kids.

Is more that they TARGET a specific section of the possible viewer and CONSUMER. And As someone whose small shop survive on kids moody behaviour I can understand that thought process. But is risky. Kid as i said are moody. VERY moody, you can push to loyalty to your brand(hell WE ARE PROOF of this!) but is not easy task. Can backfire. And so Disney fault is to play it TOO SAFE. They don't want to risk making the brand TOXIC(not that it could even happen to anything Marvel)

[yogaflame]

Yeah, Disney always plays it safe. The MCU never deals with genocide....

[Baron of Faltine]

Yeah, Disney always plays it safe. The MCU never deals with genocide....

Touche. And indeed Disney is trying to make something different. And kudos to making something very tough palatable for everyone, proof that if can be done with that can be done with X-men smoothly. Probably the only thing impossible to adapt in any shape is Blob devouring wasp form Ultimatum. BUT who would want to watch it on movie?

[yogaflame]

Touche. And indeed Disney is trying to make something different. And kudos to making something very tough palatable for everyone, proof that if can be done with that can be done with X-men smoothly. Probably the only thing impossible to adapt in any shape is Blob devouring wasp form Ultimatum. BUT who would want to watch it on movie?

While the MCU was wise to adopt some of Millar's Ultimates for the Avengers(I'd have liked even more), they would do well to avoid most of the Ultimate X-Men stuff! But seriously, while I don't love everything the MCU has done, films like Winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity War, and BP should put to rest any notions that all they can ever do is superficial jokes. I look forward to what they bring to the theater with the X-Men's incredibly rich IP on the table(FF too!).