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  1. #4501
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkywalkerX View Post
    The Infinity Saga is over, I really hope they move on and leave those tired old MacGuffins alone. The constant use of the infinity stones was sooo lazy and my least favorite thing about the MCU.
    Lazy? It was very deliberate and quite genius how the entire thing was executed. People throw out that word lazy far too often when they dont like something while discrediting the massive amount of planning and work that goes into said "lazy" decision

  2. #4502
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Yeah I never said I hated the Infinity Stones. And I agree they’re a genius move for the first saga of the MCU. Thanos has to assemble the gems while Fury has to assemble the Avengers.

    The X-Men saga, if the MCU follows suit, should have a plot contrivances that mirrors them. I read somewhere about the idea of using Sublime as the Thanos, and I want to know more...

  3. #4503
    Amazing Member SkywalkerX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Lazy? It was very deliberate and quite genius how the entire thing was executed. People throw out that word lazy far too often when they dont like something while discrediting the massive amount of planning and work that goes into said "lazy" decision
    I think the film series as a whole was well planned out. But what I enjoyed about it was the development of characters, their histories and their interactions with one another. The constant use of the Infinity Stones as a plot device was boring. Was it necessary for Wanda, Pietro, Vision, and Carol to all be powered by an infinity stone when none of them were in the comics? And while I'm not a fan of any magical objects as a driving part of a plot, the MCU completely erased a lot of other artifacts such as the Tesseract and the Eye of Agamotto. But that was for the purpose of streamlining convoluted comic book history and I can understand that. However, it serves to make the universe seem smaller and I found the repeated use of the "important object that will destroy the universe" plot device quite tiring and unoriginal and, yes, lazy. Just because someone puts a lot of time and effort into something does not mean it can't still be all of those things.

    I want the main struggle between the heroes and the villains in a story to be a difference in ideology and philosophy, not about who has the glowy rock.


    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Yeah I never said I hated the Infinity Stones. And I agree they’re a genius move for the first saga of the MCU. Thanos has to assemble the gems while Fury has to assemble the Avengers.

    The X-Men saga, if the MCU follows suit, should have a plot contrivances that mirrors them. I read somewhere about the idea of using Sublime as the Thanos, and I want to know more...
    Funny, I've never heard the term plot contrivance be used in a positive light. I've usually seen it used to describe a plot device that is forced, unnatural, far-fetched. Exactly the kind of thing I'd like to avoid with the introduction of the X-Men.
    Last edited by SkywalkerX; 06-02-2020 at 11:27 PM.

  4. #4504
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    [QUOTE=SkywalkerX;4995266]I don't think it would be that difficult to explain. Take for example Endgame showing us that the Ancient One was participating in the defense of NYC during the invasion in Avengers 1. It's very possible that the X-Men have been active but just haven't been in the same place as the Avengers and it isn't hard to imagine Xavier or another telepath covering their tracks so the rest of the world doesn't find out.

    Even so, I can't think of a particular incident in the MCU that the X-Men would HAVE to have gotten involved in. The world has been threatened a few times but usually the attack is by aliens on a specific city and doesn't last very long. It's possible they stayed out of it because the X-Men were still young and inexperienced.



    See, this is going back to what I mentioned about the best explanation being the simplest one to convey. Can you imagine how awkward and confusing it would be to have to explain that to the audience? Why would Steve's time travel affect this very specific thing? And who would be affected by this memory alteration? Because if it's everyone, how would anyone know what's different about the world and thus be able to explain it to the audience?


    Not like I dont agree. But they chose to make that story so they cant just leave it. Time travel should alter things that just how it is. Its why i hate it as a plot device. That said the Xmen fighting somewhere else at the time would be a good explanation. I dont buy the too inexperienced idea

  5. #4505
    Amazing Member SkywalkerX's Avatar
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    But we've already been reintroduced to the world post-Endgame and there was no indication that any such major changes had occurred to the universe. Everyone is dealing with half the world being 5 years younger but that's it (and frankly that's more than enough).

  6. #4506
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    I know it’s been years but I still feel like they shouldn’t have gone with the five year jump.

  7. #4507
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    I would have it such that do to the Celestials interference (revealed in Eternals) that mutants have always existed in the MCU. Many people that walk around are latent mutants with no visible phenotype. The ones that have had their powers activated were very rare. Xavier was one and he spent years researching it and found the presence of the X-gene which he coined. With so few subjects, it was hard to convince the science community of his findings, especially with so many powered beings in the world and now aliens who got their abilities from alternate sources.

    Make it such that a side effect of the snap is that it activated latent mutations across the globe and more powered beings started to surface. Xavier knew that these were mutants and he made it his mission to find young ones and help them. This would explain why you didnt see them throughout the Infinity Saga bc there werent alot of them and werent together in a group. You dont see them in Endgame bc they werent trained to be soldiers or heroes.

    The first X-men movie would set the stage for everything with humanity now realizing that Xavier's findings were real and all it would take is a politician in power to use that to instill fear for his own political gain, setting off the racial disparity that the line is known for. A powerful mutant (doesnt necesarily have to be Magneto) would step up in a public display of terrorism which would reinforce that. Xavier's been keeping his students at the school, but this inspires them to step out of the shadows to show that not all mutants are bad, and thus become X-men

    With this timeline they could have theoretically been with Xavier for 5-7 years which would place the senior X-men in their early to mid 20s which would be an ideal age to debut them
    Last edited by Havok83; 06-03-2020 at 11:40 AM.

  8. #4508
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Yeah the snap, if you’re so desperate to include it in your mutant mythology, could be the “jump start” discussed at the beginning of New X-Men. The snap is what turns Emma to diamond, Beast to extra bestial(he self-experiments using Nightcrawler’s multi-mutation genome as a base)... and others.

  9. #4509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I would have it such that do to the Celestials interference (revealed in Eternals) that mutants have always existed in the MCU. Many people that walk around are latent mutants with no visible phenotype. The ones that have had their powers activated were very rare. Xavier was one and he spent years researching it and found the presence of the X-gene which he coined. With so few subjects, it was hard to convince the science community of his findings, especially with so many powered beings in the world and now aliens who got their abilities from alternate sources.

    Make it such that a side effect of the snap is that it activated latent mutations across the globe and more powered beings started to surface. Xavier knew that these were mutants and he made it his mission to find young ones and help them. This would explain why you didnt see them throughout the Infinity Saga bc there werent alot of them and werent together in a group. You dont see them in Endgame bc they werent trained to be soldiers or heroes.

    The first X-men movie would set the stage for everything with humanity now realizing that Xavier's findings were real and all it would take is a politician in power to use that to instill fear for his own political gain, setting off the racial disparity that the line is known for. A powerful mutant (doesnt necesarily have to be Magneto) would step up in a public display of terrorism which would reinforce that. Xavier's been keeping his students at the school, but this inspires them to step out of the shadows to show that now all mutants are bad, and thus become X-men

    With this timeline they could have theoretically been with Xavier for 5-7 years which would place the senior X-men in their early to mid 20s which would be an ideal age to debut them
    I do like that theory especially if it goes into the secondary mutations and all

  10. #4510
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    Now since Im sure the MCU wont focus solely on Xavier, Magneto, Wolverine and Mystique which is a good thing because there's more to the Xmen than just them..... I do think that the idea if mutants being hidden or concealed from the general public is feasible and could lead into some other good things in the MCU.

    For instance the Illuminati....With Dr. Strange and possibly him having knowledge of a multiverse and threats from beyond so to speak and only a select few powerful characters have an understanding of whats going on. Xavier being a member of the Illuminati along with Dr. Strange and others like maybe a Nick Fury but not necessarily, and Black Panther- either inherited from his father TChaka or even giving the spot to Shuri since she's supposed to be one if not the smartest people in the MCU, introduce Namor here, even Reed Richards because of what he's seen as an explorer (maybe the fantastic 4 got stuck in another dimension/universe in space or were on the other side of the whole Thanos and Chitauri invasion stuff or simply off exploring other worlds during this time), coincidentally Captain Marvel also fits this spot, maybe they could even bring back Tony Stark as a hologram or A.I in the Ironman armor.

    The idea is that the Illuminati thru Dr.Strange's spells and Xavier's telepathy or telepaths working with him, have hidden the presence of mutants in the MCU. It could show that the Illuminati in true fashion to what they have been worked behind the scenes on quite a bit of things that have happened in the MCU. This could lead into the Incursions and Secret Wars and Dark Avengers and any other storylines that will be needed to carry the MCU going forward thru the next phases.

    If in fact the idea of the Celestials is how they go with the origins of mutants then I guess its fine though I somewhat dislike that. Maybe the Eternals become the ones that push forward mutations as a way to create an army against the Deviants or whatever but somehow some way the Illuminati would know about it

    This way I think it allows for going a number of ways with existence and emergence of mutants and even their origins in the MCU whether it be from the Celestials, to something with the snap, to being hidden all this time, or that Scarlet Witch went crazy before and wiped them out, to another universe theory, or whatever.

    MCU Illuminati-

    Dr. Strange
    Xavier
    Nick Fury
    Black Panther- or Shuri
    Namor
    Reed Richards (?)
    Captain Marvel (?)
    Reed Richards (?)
    Tony Stark A.I (?)
    Last edited by GodfatherIV; 06-03-2020 at 12:11 PM.

  11. #4511
    Amazing Member SkywalkerX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    I know it’s been years but I still feel like they shouldn’t have gone with the five year jump.
    As someone who's a bit OCD about character ages and the passing of time in stories, it bothers me to no end how some of our main characters are now 5 years older than everyone else. It was played for laughs in Far From Home, but the scenes that took place in school where some of the kids were much older now gave me such a headache. Not to mention it was so convenient that all of Peter's friends who we had met previously had all been snapped and so were still the same age. I'm not sure why they couldn't have made the timeskip something like 4-6 months.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I would have it such that do to the Celestials interference (revealed in Eternals) that mutants have always existed in the MCU. Many people that walk around are latent mutants with no visible phenotype. The ones that have had their powers activated were very rare. Xavier was one and he spent years researching it and found the presence of the X-gene which he coined. With so few subjects, it was hard to convince the science community of his findings, especially with so many powered beings in the world and now aliens who got their abilities from alternate sources.

    Make it such that a side effect of the snap is that it activated latent mutations across the globe and more powered beings started to surface. Xavier knew that these were mutants and he made it his mission to find young ones and help them. This would explain why you didnt see them throughout the Infinity Saga bc there werent alot of them and werent together in a group. You dont see them in Endgame bc they werent trained to be soldiers or heroes.

    The first X-men movie would set the stage for everything with humanity now realizing that Xavier's findings were real and all it would take is a politician in power to use that to instill fear for his own political gain, setting off the racial disparity that the line is known for. A powerful mutant (doesnt necesarily have to be Magneto) would step up in a public display of terrorism which would reinforce that. Xavier's been keeping his students at the school, but this inspires them to step out of the shadows to show that not all mutants are bad, and thus become X-men

    With this timeline they could have theoretically been with Xavier for 5-7 years which would place the senior X-men in their early to mid 20s which would be an ideal age to debut them
    This is actually extremely solid. The only thing I would amend is making it ambiguous as to what it is caused the recent increase in mutant births, having one character theorize that MAYBE it has something to do with the snap (that way in my headcanon I can ignore it and we can avoid unnecessary awkward exposition).

    I especially like your use of the 5 year time skip to facilitate having slightly more grown up and experienced X-Men. It also validates the use of such a long timeskip in the first place since, right now, there isn't really a good reason to have had one. Also makes things neater because this way, all of the main X-Men that have been on the team are people on Earth that weren't snapped. Then we could have some mutants who were brought back after the second snap recruited (since now the population of mutants on Earth should have doubled).
    Last edited by SkywalkerX; 06-03-2020 at 12:13 PM.

  12. #4512
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkywalkerX View Post
    As someone who's a bit OCD about character ages and the passing of time in stories, it bothers me to no end how some of our main characters are now 5 years older than everyone else. It was played for laughs in Far From Home, but the scenes that took place in school where some of the kids were much older now gave me such a headache. Not to mention it was so convenient that all of Peter's friends who we had met previously had all been snapped and so were still the same age. I'm not sure why they couldn't have made the timeskip something like 4-6 months.
    That definitely wouldnt have worked with Tony's arc if it was just a few months. He needed to have a family something worth losing. Besids the age thing is only something that will likely matter to Spider-Man bc he was a teen. I dont expect future movies to make that much of a big deal of things. When we see Cassie from Ant-Man, she will be a teen but it will have been a long time since we first saw her anyway, that it shouldnt be jarring. With the adult heroes, the aging will be irrelevant. Ironically with the rate at which the movies are now being released especially post COVID, it seems like we might catch up to that 5 year time jump of 2023

    This is actually extremely solid. The only thing I would amend is making it ambiguous as to what it is caused the recent increase in mutant births, having one character theorize that MAYBE it has something to do with the snap (that way in my headcanon I can ignore it and we can avoid unnecessary awkward exposition).

    I especially like your use of the 5 year time skip to facilitate having slightly more grown up and experienced X-Men. It also validates the use of such a long timeskip in the first place since, right now, there isn't really a good reason to have had one. Also makes things neater because this way, all of the main X-Men that have been on the team are people on Earth that weren't snapped. Then we could have some mutants who were brought back after the second snap recruited (since now the population of mutants on Earth should have doubled).
    I can go for the snap being just a theory
    Last edited by Havok83; 06-03-2020 at 12:37 PM.

  13. #4513
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Yeah the snap, if you’re so desperate to include it in your mutant mythology, could be the “jump start” discussed at the beginning of New X-Men. The snap is what turns Emma to diamond, Beast to extra bestial(he self-experiments using Nightcrawler’s multi-mutation genome as a base)... and others.
    I like that. And then leave The Snap in the rearview after that.

  14. #4514
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    I know it’s been years but I still feel like they shouldn’t have gone with the five year jump.
    I hate the five year gap with every bone in my body. It only benefits Tony Stark's character and no one else's.

  15. #4515
    Amazing Member SkywalkerX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    That definitely wouldnt have worked with Tony's arc if it was just a few months. He needed to have a family something worth losing.
    Ah, rats! Forgot about that tiny detail.

    Edit: This could be remedied by changing it to have Pepper be pregnant with Tony's kid. But then they'd have to get rid of I love you 3000 (bleh) and Pepper's turn as Rescue at the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    I hate the five year gap with every bone in my body. It only benefits Tony Stark's character and no one else's.
    Agreed.
    Last edited by SkywalkerX; 06-03-2020 at 01:04 PM.

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