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  1. #4456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    She has to start off a kid. Making her an adult or a teen dumbs the themes down and lowers the film's story standard. To press the matter further she is introduced as a kid in Logan, The Comics and X-Men Evolution. What good excuse would there be to age her up? It may be good enough for the MCU because they have to keep things unnecessarily kid-friendly, which in default lowers their standard of what you can do with a story. It is not a good excuse for X-Men. If you want an aged up Laura connected to Wolverine emotionally, Lady Deathstrike is the answer.
    Logan is one story about X-23, which is about her origins - there's far more to her than that. They can do various themes wth her, like her becoming Wolverine's protege or eventually being the next Wolverine and other things like in New X-men where she was in a class with other students. What age she is has nothing to do with the qualify of the story's she's in. The comics have a wealth of material to explore, which Fox never got too. They can show her as a kid in flashbacks, like they did with Magneto. They don't have to do everything the same. For example, Logan thankfully left out how she was forced into being a prostitute. Logan takes a lot fo inspiration from her Target X mini-series where she's the star getting revenge on the Facility and she's far more capable than she was in the movie. Because she can explore her life after her origins more thoroughly as an adult and as a man character. The main X-men movies are kid friendly and they had Wolverine stabbing soldiers to death. Her life is more than revolving around Logan, I'd like to see her with the New X-men students like Surge and crew and growing up. She has an interesting relationship with Emma Frost, there's more then one way to do something in stories.

    Fox X-Men standard when good was telling more thoughtful mature stories about comics. That is the highest standard for comic book movies. Its funny that you talk of standard but don't realise asking for Laura to be aged up is lowering the standard of movies.You may as well ask for Magneto to be a grown man in nazi camps or mutants should not be hated and feared because Avengers and F4 are not hated and feared?
    Fox X-men were inconsistent and ranged from awful to great. X-men: Last Stand was not a "mature" story by any stretch, it was a live action cartoon. X-23 is more then what she was in Logan, there's her as a student, being in X-Force, becoming Wolverine, being friends with the 05. Everyone saw Logan, we can move onto the next stage. Magneto was only a kid in flashbacks, the majority of his appearances are as an old man or a full grown adult.


    There is no need for a Green Lantern Corps movie since HBO MAX is giving it show. This would have suited X-Men best.
    WB needs to reboot GL and the movie turned off many to the idea which is taking years to fix, X-men can do anything and are more open to exploring more media at once, they've had movies along side tv shows before (Legion, The Gifted).

  2. #4457
    Mugga, please. xhx23x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    How

    Ten characters.
    Yeah I kinda want an answer too cause the snap thing to me makes it easier to insert the mutants in the MCU. and it would fit with the establish narrative of reality warping.

  3. #4458
    Incredible Member Marvelgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    How

    Ten characters.
    Quote Originally Posted by xhx23x View Post
    Yeah I kinda want an answer too cause the snap thing to me makes it easier to insert the mutants in the MCU. and it would fit with the establish narrative of reality warping.


    Because its a mystery box of emptiness. It has no true substance to what has already been done in the past.It focuses more on selling X-men as part of the mcu than X-Men as a potentially wonderful science fiction series on its own, where the concept of mutants is based on real science hypothesises.

  4. #4459
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    The concept of mutation results in cancer or vestigial tails.

    The X-Men is about optic blasts and healing factors.

  5. #4460
    Mugga, please. xhx23x's Avatar
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    The why and hows of mutants are not as important or interesting as the when and who.

    I personally find the new spidey movies to be boring and I don't love Tom Holland in the role (I enjoy him well enough though), but one of those things the new movies get right is that thet skipped the whole origin stuff. They went a little too far with making him Tony lite but the idea was still sound. The Fox movies made the concept of mutants familiar enough. It doesn't really matter what their reason for being in the MCU now is. At least not at the start of their movies/tv shows.

  6. #4461
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    She has to start off a kid. Making her an adult or a teen dumbs the themes down and lowers the film's story standard. To press the matter further she is introduced as a kid in Logan, The Comics and X-Men Evolution. What good excuse would there be to age her up? It may be good enough for the MCU because they have to keep things unnecessarily kid-friendly, which in default lowers their standard of what you can do with a story. It is not a good excuse for X-Men. If you want an aged up Laura connected to Wolverine emotionally, Lady Deathstrike is the answer.
    X-23 was NOT a child in her first appearance in the books. She was between 15-16 when she first appeared in NYX. We didn't see Laura as a child in the comics until KYost wrote her origin book the year AFTER she debuted.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!

    Pull List: N/A

  7. #4462
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    The concept of mutation results in cancer or vestigial tails.

    The X-Men is about optic blasts and healing factors.
    The cancer analogy kind of fits the Snap idea perfectly. People have been getting cancer since the dawn of time but getting exposed to radiation ups the chances same for mutation and the Snap in my scenario.

  8. #4463
    Incredible Member Marvelgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    X-23 was NOT a child in her first appearance in the books. She was between 15-16 when she first appeared in NYX. We didn't see Laura as a child in the comics until KYost wrote her origin book the year AFTER she debuted.
    15-16 is a child. 16 year olds still need parental consent to get married.

    I think you missed the point of why she was a child in her first appearance. Its the same reason why Magneto was a child in nazi camps.

  9. #4464
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    I’m looking forward to the Disney Merch Machine.

  10. #4465
    Incredible Member Marvelgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Logan is one story about X-23, which is about her origins - there's far more to her than that. They can do various themes wth her, like her becoming Wolverine's protege or eventually being the next Wolverine and other things like in New X-men where she was in a class with other students. What age she is has nothing to do with the qualify of the story's she's in. The comics have a wealth of material to explore, which Fox never got too. They can show her as a kid in flashbacks, like they did with Magneto. They don't have to do everything the same. For example, Logan thankfully left out how she was forced into being a prostitute. Logan takes a lot fo inspiration from her Target X mini-series where she's the star getting revenge on the Facility and she's far more capable than she was in the movie. Because she can explore her life after her origins more thoroughly as an adult and as a man character. The main X-men movies are kid friendly and they had Wolverine stabbing soldiers to death. Her life is more than revolving around Logan, I'd like to see her with the New X-men students like Surge and crew and growing up. She has an interesting relationship with Emma Frost, there's more then one way to do something in stories.
    .
    Can you name at least one character in the MCU that acts like Laura?

    Logan may have left out her working as a prostitute but that has nothing to do with James Mangold not having the guts to put that in. It was within his power. No offence but I don't think any older woman in the MCU can be a prostitute. I don't expect that from a teen or kid.

    If Logan had been a mini series, it may have made sense to have that story as long as the themes of child trafficking and child prostitution is explored very well. Now this can be on HBO Max, FX or if Fox had continued making movies with good writers. Can this be on Disney plus or in the MCU? NO WAY.

  11. #4466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    Can you name at least one character in the MCU that acts like Laura?

    Logan may have left out her working as a prostitute but that has nothing to do with James Mangold not having the guts to put that in. It was within his power. No offence but I don't think any older woman in the MCU can be a prostitute. I don't expect that from a teen or kid.

    If Logan had been a mini series, it may have made sense to have that story as long as the themes of child trafficking and child prostitution is explored very well. Now this can be on HBO Max, FX or if Fox had continued making movies with good writers. Can this be on Disney plus or in the MCU? NO WAY.
    What's that got to do with anything?

    The prostitute thing wasn't about Mangold not having the guts it was that he knew not to put in things which would be horrible to adapt, everyone tries to forget that part of X-23's life because it was terrible. The reason I bought it up was that there are many parts of X-23's life which they can focus on, they don't have to focus on her origin again. They can do things like have her be a student at the school now.

    Except it wasn't, all we got was a movie. It's not like Fox can't do that on a tv network if they wanted to. Even Fox didn't do what you're suggesting.

  12. #4467
    Mighty Member TheSupernaut's Avatar
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    Tbh I would have the X-Men being around as a covert superhero team before the snap (first 5) and then having them snapped (sans Scott)to lead to him managing the second team(Storm, Colossus, Banshee etc)

  13. #4468
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    The prostitute thing wasn't about Mangold not having the guts it was that he knew not to put in things which would be horrible to adapt, everyone tries to forget that part of X-23's life because it was terrible.
    Sorry, but you're wrong on this. *I* don't forget. In fact, that aspect of her history is IMO even MORE relevant in the post-#MeToo world, and is something Marvel SHOULD do more with. And NYX itself is perfectly adaptable, and just because it makes YOU uncomfortable doesn't mean that there's not a lot that could be done or themes worthy of exploration, especially because those themes (human trafficking, abuse, urban decay, lost youth, and family of birth vs. family of choice) are very REAL issues. The X-Men aren't an escapist fantasy, the examination and exploration of real world issues has been ingrained in the franchise since 1963, that doesn't just have to stop at mutants-as-metaphor.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!

    Pull List: N/A

  14. #4469
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    I don’t see X-23 replacing Logan in the films anyway, so it will probably be awhile before she’s reintroduced. Unless they put her in the R-rated corner as part of X-Force. Now that I’d love to see... assuming Deadpool 3 is still happening and there will be an R-rated corner. An R-rated X-Force film with Cable, Deadpool, Domino, X-23, maybe Psylocke and some others (Colossus?) would be so great. Really hope it still happens.

  15. #4470
    Incredible Member Marvelgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    Sorry, but you're wrong on this. *I* don't forget. In fact, that aspect of her history is IMO even MORE relevant in the post-#MeToo world, and is something Marvel SHOULD do more with. And NYX itself is perfectly adaptable, and just because it makes YOU uncomfortable doesn't mean that there's not a lot that could be done or themes worthy of exploration, especially because those themes (human trafficking, abuse, urban decay, lost youth, and family of birth vs. family of choice) are very REAL issues. The X-Men aren't an escapist fantasy, the examination and exploration of real world issues has been ingrained in the franchise since 1963, that doesn't just have to stop at mutants-as-metaphor.
    Point well noted. Part of me was mute when Steel Inquisitor said Logan was a good film by Fox standards. I should have known it was not what I was thought. High standards to me are things that are more provoking to write and yeah, just because it makes A PERSON uncomfortable does not mean it should be removed, it making people uncomfortable is raising the standard because it open minds and is this me too era, things like human trafficking, sex abuse can be explored. That will even get 10x the praise if it is explored in a comic book film.

    The X-Men aren't an escapist fantasy, the examination and exploration of real world issues has been ingrained in the franchise since 1963, that doesn't just have to stop at mutants-as-metaphor.
    Another point I was trying to make that the snap will cheapen the concept of mutants. in the past , mutants have been described as the next stage of human evolution, a slow process that takes thousand of years. there is real science hypothesises that supports that theory of races. Another good reason mutants have always made a good metaphor for racism.

    A snap that gave birth to mutants is the definition of a lazy space fantasy theory. X2 definition of the origins of mutants is already a superior origin to the snap theory because that has plausible science to explain the mutant gene. a snap is actually lowering the standard of comic book plots and making things more shallow than a standard comic film needs to be
    Last edited by Marvelgirl; 05-25-2020 at 10:27 AM.

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