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  1. #2821

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    I still Proteus would be a good kick off villain. He is scary and pure evil and would really freak normal humans out with him jumping from body to body burning them out as he goes.

    Proteus could work as a member of an evil mutant team (Weapon X or the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants) who goes too far in the third act. He could be an early recruit of Xavier's who opted to betray him.

  2. #2822
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    I wouldn't mind using the Krakoa name for a random military controlled island that was building Sentinels/Master Mold. I wouldn't even mind using Krakoa in more or less its original form as a nuclear weapons testing experiment gone wrong. But I wouldn't do the two together at once.
    I feel like we've had this exact exchange before. I still really like the outline I have in my head, but tell me why you wouldn't mix the two?

    My story concept introduces Magneto's Acolytes too. I bet that is just too much salt in the soup for you :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    I really liked Millar's version, basically combining Legion and Proteus into one, but I'd rather not do that to the MCU Xavier.
    Do what to Xavier?
    Last edited by CRaymond; 06-20-2019 at 08:24 PM.

  3. #2823
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Weapon X has been done a lot, but they make sense as villains for the first film.

    It gives a bit of an excuse for why mutants haven't been mentioned (shady government organization is keeping their existence secret), allows the introduction of future X-Men as antagonists, gets Wolverine involved in the main story, and can connect to the larger Marvel Universe (it would fit the Osborn rumors.)



    He doesn't really have longer arcs, and he's been working with an ally (typically Black Tom) since he first fought the international X-Men in the early 70s.
    When it comes to making movies, I could care less about what is comic book canon. Use the characters and the stories as inspiration and nothing more.

    Juggernaut can work. So can Proteus and many others. If the team is young and fledgling (which it should be, that's how we'll build a sense of family and reliance on one another) they don't need some single villain, works alone A-lister.

  4. #2824

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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    I feel like we've had this exact exchange before. I still really like the outline I have in my head, but tell me why you wouldn't mix the two?

    My story concept introduces Magneto's Acolytes too. I bet that is just too much salt in the soup for you :-)

    Do what to Xavier?
    Yeah, that's too many elements for one story. I'd rather have the first MCU X-Men movie focus primarily on the young X-Men; getting to know their backstories, learning about their powers, and training to become a tight unit. Just use a simple villain. Second time out, once we've got the main group characterized is when you can start using more complex antagonists. Otherwise you spread yourself too thin and nothing actually gets fleshed out.

    Millar's Xavier was a dick, and I'd rather not lean too heavily into 'evil Xavier' for the MCU version. Fox already threw him under the bus in X3 and DP. I know Charles is not the saint some think him, but the Millar Proteus/World Tour story made him into someone who actively left his own child to run off with Erik to build their mutant utopia (Ultimate Xavier was killed by Erik during Ultimatum). I think we can do an Xavier who can and does do some sketchy things without going full Deadly Genesis/"Xavier is worse than Magneto" angle a lot of modern writers have gone.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  5. #2825
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Yeah, that's too many elements for one story. I'd rather have the first MCU X-Men movie focus primarily on the young X-Men; getting to know their backstories, learning about their powers, and training to become a tight unit. Just use a simple villain.
    Agree to disagree. I think it comes down to you want to start in the beginning and I want to start in the middle. I also think nothing is very compelling about the individual X-Men's backstories. I realize there are those that feel Storm's past in Wakanda suggests she'll be introduced in Black Panther but I'm really put off by the Lion King redux of it all.

    I feel the most important part of Storm's backstory is the oblique notion that she was worshipped as a child goddess in rural Africa, and how that clashes with the oblique notion that Nightcrawler was reviled, hid in a monastery and under the guise of a circus act. As X-Men, they are the same. Both goddess and freak are mutants. How they build a team to carry the dream of an idealist is the whole package to me. Villains should be born of that essential concept conflict.

    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Second time out, once we've got the main group characterized is when you can start using more complex antagonists. Otherwise you spread yourself too thin and nothing actually gets fleshed out.
    I agree. Which is why I want to showcase extremes: "wild" Sentinel programming as ultimate preservers of a rigid, oppressive status quo, and Krakoa as unpredictable monstrous chaos. One exploiting the other suggests a complicated, interconnected world that the X-Men need to delicately unravel. It mostly requires Krakoa to be retconned as a tragic prisoner of his own mutation, requiring the X-Men to teach rather than defeat. Bring HOME that academic concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Millar's Xavier was a dick, and I'd rather not lean too heavily into 'evil Xavier' for the MCU version. Fox already threw him under the bus in X3 and DP. I know Charles is not the saint some think him, but the Millar Proteus/World Tour story made him into someone who actively left his own child to run off with Erik to build their mutant utopia (Ultimate Xavier was killed by Erik during Ultimatum). I think we can do an Xavier who can and does do some sketchy things without going full Deadly Genesis/"Xavier is worse than Magneto" angle a lot of modern writers have gone.
    Some people are desperate for a Good Dad archetype in Xavier and while I agree the Deadly Genesis and Danger episodes for 616 Xavier were messy, I DO like the idea of him being far too stubborn for his own good. I like the idea of combining the Legion and Proteus character role, and even the character origin: Making David Xavier the son of Charles and Moira. I agree there might be a movie with Proteus as a villain, but I wonder if it would be best as a flashback or prestige series.

  6. #2826
    Mighty Member Glio's Avatar
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    I've been thinking and I think that hard as it may seem, the best thing for Jean in the MCU is that she starts already dead in a Dark Phoenix Saga in the backstory. That way when she is introduced to the movies they have already taken that off and she can do more than die.

  7. #2827
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    That way when she is introduced to the movies they have already taken that off and she can do more than die.
    Bingo. We’ll never get to “Storm-as-Den-Mother” if we have to suffer Cyclops, Jean, Magneto and Xavier. Remove them all, and start in the middle.

  8. #2828
    Mighty Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Bingo. We’ll never get to “Storm-as-Den-Mother” if we have to suffer Cyclops, Jean, Magneto and Xavier. Remove them all, and start in the middle.
    I'm not talking about that at all.

  9. #2829

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    Don't have definite opinions yet of where I'd like them to go with X-men. I'm open to the idea of focusing on more obscure characters and the next generation/s, but at the same time I'm fascinated by what Marvel would do with the standard roster and who they'd cast to replace the Fox actors.

  10. #2830
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    I'm open to the idea of focusing on more obscure characters and the next generation/s, .
    Not only there's absolute zero chance of that happening, the ONLY way this more obscure or younger characters will get any focus is if the bigger names do well.

  11. #2831
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Not only there's absolute zero chance of that happening, the ONLY way this more obscure or younger characters will get any focus is if the bigger names do well.
    I don't know Marvel Studios has had a lot of success with obscure characters. I mean would anyone had thought 10 years ago Rocket and Groot would be more well known than most X-Men characters by the general public?

  12. #2832
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    I don't know Marvel Studios has had a lot of success with obscure characters. I mean would anyone had thought 10 years ago Rocket and Groot would be more well known than most X-Men characters by the general public?
    Sure, but the only reason they invested in those was because they didn't have the X-men. And there's no way they'll leave Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm, etc, on the backbench so they can use Glob Herman or whatever.

  13. #2833
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    I agree with Omega Alpha on this. The only unknown is how well received a Hugh Jackmanless wolverine would be. It'll be interesting to see but Marvel will have their work cutout for them trying to reboot X-Men especially when we have seen some good ones such as X1, Days of Future Past, and Logan to compare them to.

  14. #2834
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    I'm not talking about that at all.
    My mistake. Do go on.

  15. #2835
    Mighty Member Glio's Avatar
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    Although they have been in 5-6 films, it is sad that characters like Cyclops and Storm have hardly been important in all these years.

    I think the most overused characters are Wolverine, Magneto and Xavier, practically all the movies revolve around them.

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