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  1. #3031
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial View Post
    Not saying it has to be word for word exactly like the source material. But I feel like you should be familiar with it. With characters and stories.
    Not saying that it doesn't help. If I was a director, I personally would examine the source material, even if going different ways. Not sure if that's still the dealbreaker between the movie being good or bad, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial View Post
    Them not paying attention to the source material is why so many X-men where unrecognizable. As a Storm fan, I never truly felt we saw Storm on the big screen.
    From what little I've seen of Storm in the comics, I can't say the character seemed off (but, like I said, my experience may be pretty limited). I can get that on a personal level that an adaptation changing character(s) or other elements to an extreme can be off-putting for people who liked the source material. I like the Runaways comics but I don't want to see the TV version, since it changes a lot of stuff from the source material in ways that bother me. Now, I don't think I can say the show is bad for making those changes (since it being good or bad is about how it takes and tells its own story from its own starting point), which kinda informs how I see these kind of things.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  2. #3032
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Bob Iger knows little about Marvel but Feige has significant knowledge about the series to Kinberg, who has zero knowledge about the series. Fox should have put someone in charge who had a sufficient amount of knowledge about the series when they decided to reboot it. I stopped taking the franchise seriously after the apocalypse reboot. Feige is just stuck with making juvenile immature movies about marvel stories.





    The Joel Schumaker mess made everyone distance itself from the genre. Blade was the first movie in the aftermath, Comic movies had to be Aristotle post Schumaker. Schumaker never got the chance to make a third film. Batman was rebooted 8 years after by another director who had a good knowledge about Batman. If Disney had not bought Fox. High chances that, this is what would happened. Fox will no longer have a choice. it would have been better than a MCU reboot though looking at Holland's Spiderman struggling under the shadows of Raimi.

    Fox like Warner brothers problem was changing the head runner or director. Marvel's problem is changing the entire structure. Fox did not know who X23 was, but putting her in a movie was not a big deal after Mangold explained the character. Marvel may know who she is since she is their character but Marvel would never put her in any movie or use her as Mangold did.
    Men in Black, Spawn, and Steel were all released between Batman and Robin and Blade.

  3. #3033
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    I guess my first response would be what I'd bring up here. I mean, what's the end goal of the film and all that? An adaptation with zero fidelity to the source material can still be a legitimately well-made and worthwhile story on its own merits, just like how the X-Men movies stood and fell on how well they were made and produced, not on how "accurate" they were to the old comics.
    But if it's going to be an "adaption" then I think there's the expectation that you would still remain true to the source material to a certain extent, otherwise why even bother?

    I mean, it's not making an original IP with someone else's material it's taking that material and adapting it in a way where it remains true and accurate to a different audience. At least that's how I've always looked at it.

  4. #3034
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    The Joel Schumaker mess made everyone distance itself from the genre. Blade was the first movie in the aftermath...
    And Blade didn't even MENTION it was a Marvel property. All of its marketing focused on the vampire stuff (and was obscure enough they could get away with it).
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!


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  5. #3035
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Men in Black, Spawn, and Steel were all released between Batman and Robin and Blade.
    And Spawn and Steel crashed and burned HARD. Most people didn't even know MiB was a comic first (and much like Blade did, I don't recall the marketing even mentioning that it was).
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!


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  6. #3036
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    And Spawn and Steel crashed and burned HARD. Most people didn't even know MiB was a comic first (and much like Blade did, I don't recall the marketing even mentioning that it was).
    Spawn didn't do too bad for 90's standards of profits.

    Batman and Robin is at the very bottom of my Batman films ranking but I feel it gets way too much blame for "crashing" the comic book film genre at that time. IMO Steel is a far worst film Batman and Robin is a campy cringefest but at least it looks like a big budget Hollywood film where Steel looks DTV. Also this was the same time period that saw films like Tank Girl, Judge Dredd, Barb Wire, and on TV we had gems like Nick Fury Agent of Shield and Generation-X TV movies.

    I understand why in 2000 when making X-Men creators would want to distance from the source material but by the 10's when the Superhero genre was riding high it went from making sense to feeling like shame of the source material.

  7. #3037
    Fantastic Member Mutant X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I just feel bad for Olivia.

    She fought for the character to be closer to the source material.
    And one of the few good things about Apocalypse was Psylocke costume and her fight scenes.

  8. #3038
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    I like the Runaways comics but I don't want to see the TV version, since it changes a lot of stuff from the source material in ways that bother me. Now, I don't think I can say the show is bad for making those changes (since it being good or bad is about how it takes and tells its own story from its own starting point), which kinda informs how I see these kind of things.
    Runways is telling the same general story, The character are recognizable the same characters and personality types, People who are important are still important. The changes in runways is happenning mostly because of the format and adapting it for tv and because of lack of access to Marvel characters at the time. Runways is what most people want to see from the process, Runways is clearly different from the comic but it is following the comics and you know where it is going because you read the comics. Walk Dead is the samething they have made clear deviations but you know it where it is going because you read the comics.

    We understand that Movie/tv and comic version are different things, We want them to stay true to the comics. X2 was different from the story to told in comics but it generally stay true to the comics, DoFP was a different story from the comics but generally stay true to the comics those are fine. X-men First class was a good movie but that movie went f*** the comics and biggest problem of X-men movie line is because of First class. The best way to explain is like comics movies are like driving to a place you been before that with a couple of places you want to visit on the way. You can drive complete different routes but as long as you hit the key spots on the way you are fine because reaching the same destination is ultimately the key. The problem with the X-men movie they don't hit the key spots and even worse sometimes don't end at the right destination. That's why fan get mad because they have a roadmap in the comics which shows you how to get to the right destination. If you have map why not use it?
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 07-15-2019 at 03:40 PM.

  9. #3039
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    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    Didn't Singer have a "no comics" policy on set? I remember one of the actors talking about it during the X-Men Trilogy, but I can't confirm.
    https://www.cinemablend.com/news/246...-the-x-men-set

    And that explains why the core X-Men were always fringe players. If only Bryan read some X-Men comics in his life. Could have had a better adaptation.

  10. #3040
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Hear, hear!

    Fox wasted the X-Men IP because they never truly appreciated it. Thank the Goddess this 20 year period is coming to an end(really, NM, just go away).
    The MCU sure has an uphill battle now. Fox has tarnished the X-Men brand with the last two films. Dark Phoenix has done so much damage people just might avoid the reboot.

  11. #3041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    The MCU sure has an uphill battle now. Fox has tarnished the X-Men brand with the last two films. Dark Phoenix has done so much damage people just might avoid the reboot.
    DP didn't do half as much damage as Batman & Robin did for the Batman brand, and yet...

  12. #3042

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    The MCU sure has an uphill battle now. Fox has tarnished the X-Men brand with the last two films. Dark Phoenix has done so much damage people just might avoid the reboot.
    Fox has done a lot of damage, for certain, but the X-Men will rise again. Feige's X-Men will rake in billions and be in the cultural zeitgeist again, but it will take a solid 5 years before he's ready. After suffering through 20 years of Murdock's nonsense, I can wait.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  13. #3043
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    The MCU sure has an uphill battle now. Fox has tarnished the X-Men brand with the last two films. Dark Phoenix has done so much damage people just might avoid the reboot.
    I don't think it's as dire as that. The X-Men IP is gonna get a really big push from the MCU if there's one thing Feige and friends are good at it's build up and pay off as evidenced by these last 10 years. You'll also find that the general audience has a pretty short memory when it comes to movies. More than a few people had their reservations about Spiderman being in the MCU so soon after TASM flops, Spiderman was introduced into the MCU back in 2016 three short years later and Tom Holland's second solo movie is on the path of becoming the first Spider-Man movie to hit over 1 billion dollars (and the 8th marvel movie to do so).

    If it's one thing the MCU is good at it's building up brand recognition through careful planning and legitimately good movies.

  14. #3044
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    But if it's going to be an "adaption" then I think there's the expectation that you would still remain true to the source material to a certain extent, otherwise why even bother?

    I mean, it's not making an original IP with someone else's material it's taking that material and adapting it in a way where it remains true and accurate to a different audience. At least that's how I've always looked at it.
    I guess I'd take that all on a case-by-case basis. There are quite a few different reasons why to go tighter or looser. Case in point, X3 removed the space elements from the Phoenix story since the movies had been relatively grounded up to that point and it was a good idea to be consistent in tone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    And Spawn and Steel crashed and burned HARD. Most people didn't even know MiB was a comic first (and much like Blade did, I don't recall the marketing even mentioning that it was).
    As I understand it, MiB was an extremely loose adaptation of the comics and the comics themselves were pretty short-lived.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Runways is telling the same general story, The character are recognizable the same characters and personality types, People who are important are still important. The changes in runways is happenning mostly because of the format and adapting it for tv and because of lack of access to Marvel characters at the time. Runways is what most people want to see from the process, Runways is clearly different from the comic but it is following the comics and you know where it is going because you read the comics. Walk Dead is the samething they have made clear deviations but you know it where it is going because you read the comics.
    Fair enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    We understand that Movie/tv and comic version are different things, We want them to stay true to the comics. X2 was different from the story to told in comics but it generally stay true to the comics, DoFP was a different story from the comics but generally stay true to the comics those are fine. X-men First class was a good movie but that movie went f*** the comics and biggest problem of X-men movie line is because of First class. The best way to explain is like comics movies are like driving to a place you been before that with a couple of places you want to visit on the way. You can drive complete different routes but as long as you hit the key spots on the way you are fine because reaching the same destination is ultimately the key. The problem with the X-men movie they don't hit the key spots and even worse sometimes don't end at the right destination. That's why fan get mad because they have a roadmap in the comics which shows you how to get to the right destination. If you have map why not use it?
    Maybe because you think there's something else to explore on the map that's worth everyone's while?
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  15. #3045
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    DP didn't do half as much damage as Batman & Robin did for the Batman brand, and yet...
    Batman and Robin was not a big deal in the long term for Batman. We all knew Batman movies could be better than Batman and Robin. Batman just needed a better head runner. They couldn't find anyone better than Nolan, X-Men is not going to that type of head runner since MCU does not have that kind of structure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    The MCU sure has an uphill battle now. Fox has tarnished the X-Men brand with the last two films. Dark Phoenix has done so much damage people just might avoid the reboot.
    People would not avoid the reboot. Disney can gets sits in cinemas, people would just treat the reboot as they are treating reboot Tom Holland Spiderman. I think some franchises like Spiderman, Star Wars, Lion King and X-Men. Their best days are now behind them. All what Disney cares about is making as much money as they can.

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