X-men fans did not show up for dark phoenix. Disney is in for money, fans and creators are more about the art. x-men does not need a Disney formula, What Disney could do is just fund the project and back away as they once did with Mirimax. Disney need an xmen formula that has constantly redefined how people saw comic stories told in movies, cartoons and literature for the better, something Disney is currently failing at. it is Disney that has to chase X-Men not the other way around especially now that superhero films appear so toxic in a legit conversation about real cinema. xmen has to prove again, comic movies should be considered as cinema. this is the only real success of mcu xmen that will have unshakable legacy. its not about money. please look at spiderman and star wars.
Last edited by Beaddle; 11-17-2019 at 11:23 AM.
The Fox X-Men movies themselves, Nolan's Batman trilogy, the DCEU... Movies outside of the MCU formula have existed for a while. X-Men is closer in premise to movies like the Avengers ones than with Joker. That's why I say no one is gonna be comparing the X-Men with Joker or any similar movie, but with the more mainstream MCU blockbusters.
X-Men with the MCU formula is exactly what most people have been wanting. They want to see interconnected stories, arcs and sagas being built up, X-Men interacting with Avengers, Fantastic Four, etc. Team movies focused on a team dynamic rather than a few individual characters.You don't need the mcu formula for xmen.
Well, I'd say that's where you're wrong. Crossover universe appeal applies to the X-Men more than anything now, because X-Men had their own separate universe for over a decade with Fox so being part of a shared one is new and unexplored for them.MCU style is a result of people not knowing much about the characters and the crossover universe appeal, which is breaking down fast. these two factors don't apply to the xmen.
I imagine the X-Men movies themselves will be focused on their own world. But there are gonna be X-Men characters guest starring in other movies and a few characters from outside maybe showing up on X-Men, besides big crossovers like Infinity War(that's gonna take a while, but it'll happen eventually). And now with Disney+ there's gonna be even more places where they can do that stuff outside of the main X-Men movie franchise.xmen was already a well known property before Disney bought fox or fox bought x-men. the interest of xmen is not down to the MCU. Most importantly, other marvel characters have never made xmen interesting. xmen has usually excelled best when they focused on their own world.
I always thought the cartoons of xmen were the best live action xmen we have so far and Legion on FX. all 3 live action are more joker friendly than Avengers, especially in tone, themes, depth, writing and realism. Joker is even a human take of what Legion is. Claremont has said xmen is not like avengers. Joss Whedon has also said so too. so those are 2 guys who are not bluffing about the differences.
How wrong am I? Once again, I go back to the best live action xmen. the cartoons. crossovers were limited. they did not apply to xmen at all. Furtherly you can remotely shuffle any best xmen story list here, I am sure 90% of them won't be crossovers universe related.Well, I'd say that's where you're wrong. Crossover universe appeal applies to the X-Men more than anything now, because X-Men had their own separate universe for over a decade with Fox so being part of a shared one is new and unexplored for them.
Didnt marvel also begin to loose readers when they started doing more crossovers like AvX and IvX? or kitty and star Lord pairing. do xmen fans even remember storm was married to black panther? did Uncanny avengers have the same impact as uncanny xmen?
most importantly marvel always knew deep in their heart that it made no sense for xmen to be hated and F4 and avengers and loved. the world building of xmen was different as a result of this. marvel made it quite secluded.
X-men and mutants should be like they are in the comics when they make their debut in the mcu. we should not get the idea xmen is dependent on the mcu.the comics have never made xmen dependent on the marvel universe.I imagine the X-Men movies themselves will be focused on their own world. But there are gonna be X-Men characters guest starring in other movies and a few characters from outside maybe showing up on X-Men, besides big crossovers like Infinity War(that's gonna take a while, but it'll happen eventually). And now with Disney+ there's gonna be even more places where they can do that stuff outside of the main X-Men movie franchise.
Last edited by Beaddle; 11-17-2019 at 01:14 PM.
I'm going to take issue with this. As someone working for a corporation, Feige's first duty is to the bottom line for Disney. That's an objective fact - if his films stop making money, Feige will lose his position. Trying to produce something that is both accessible to the layman while still appealing to fans of the comics isn't his job, it's merely advice on how to do that job (I also say extremely good advice, but that is more subjective). The question is going to be exactly how he does those things - and how successful it turns out.
Personally, I feel the X-Men would be better served by a premium cable/streaming show format, like The Mandalorian or Game of Thrones, than a few hours on the big screen.
Dark does not mean deep.
The X-Men movie franchise Dark Phoenix caused losses for Disney. The Avengers characters made them over 3 billion in a year. Why wouldn't they want to have the X-Men ride off of the success of the Avengers?
Disney submitted the actors of Endgame to be nominated for Oscars. That's their art.
Disney+ is creating a huge universe. They aren't gonna not include the X-Men because they want a Joker-like movie for them.
Yeah, there are just too many characters.
In a series, each character can get an episode devoted to them, to really break them out and develop them, whereas in a movie, someone's always gonna be treated like Cyclops or Storm were in the Fox movies, as barely more than background fodder, since the movies didn't have time to develop Charles, Erik, Mystique, Wolverine *and* everyone else, and so mostly stuck to those four.
The Avengers benefitted from Iron Man, Thor, Captain America (and, to a lesser extent, the Hulk) having standalone movies beforehand, to establish their characters, and even afterwards, to further develop them, allowing them to portray them in shorthand, and get right to the action (while giving some character moments to the ones who didn't have their own movies, like Hawkeye and the Black Widow). Unless an MCU X-Men movie is preceded by standalone Wolverine, Storm and Cyclops movies, allowing the 'team' movie to give more focus to 'lesser' characters like Colossus, Iceman, Nightcrawler, etc. it can't recreate the exact circumstances of the Avengers movie's success, since it will be stuck trying to develop a half-dozen characters at the same time, and we've seen how that goes, in the Fox X-Men movies. It might not be guaranteed to turn into the Wolverine, Magneto, Xavier and Mystique show 2.0, but there will still be those that get the spotlight, and those that get shortchanged.
Because xmen are not avengers. Disney should ride of the success of how Logan redefined and changed how comic movies are artistically made for the better. avengers may have made 3 billion but it is hardly an xmen story.
Oscars would prefer more xmen type of stories because of the themes ,tone and character driven drama of the series.Disney submitted the actors of Endgame to be nominated for Oscars. That's their art.
Disney should make xmen like their comics and that does include many style of movies from joker to Deadpool to dystopian to horror to adventure. Disney should not just mold xmen any how they like with the excuse of a huge universe. it did not work with inhumans, homecoming/ffh or iron fist. it stopped working for their Netflix shows when people discovered they were not really connected to the movies and it was just a marketing ploy.Disney+ is creating a huge universe. They aren't gonna not include the X-Men because they want a Joker-like movie for them.
they should just let xmen be xmen instead of shoving it down with crossovers.
Last edited by Beaddle; 11-17-2019 at 12:22 PM.
That is one thing I expect Disney to be able to pull off - leaving Logan's character development in his own films and not allowing it to take over the X-Men as well. Well, two things, I also expect them to not give us 8 films of Charles and Eric angsting over themselves either.
Dark does not mean deep.
I want the X-men’s world in the MCU to be big and expansive. So honestly I’m excited to see their interactions with the rest of the MCU as that’s something we never got with the FOX version, obviously. Their world felt very small and insular and revolved around the school, so I’m hoping Feige takes a totally different approach. I want to see locales like Krakoa and the Savage Land, mixed in with the more grounded political aspects of the mutants fight for acceptance and co-existence.
I don't believe Logan will get a movie. They never gave Hawkeye a movie. he was the closest thing they had to Logan as a character. not only did they not give hawkeye a movie, he is the Avenger with the most limited screen time. Disney would want to explore the more fun light side of xmen but I don't know how long it will last as that is only 15% of the xmen universe. 85% of xmen is a much darker gritter, adult and dramatic world wrapped up in endless soap operas and many real universe draw backs.
Speaking of Eric, Once again I go back to the artistic triumph of joker. marvel could do a supervillian movie (sort off) magneto's origins but give it a feeling of Dunkirk, Hurtlocker or Saving private Ryan. a real world war 2 movie, only this time some have special powers in world war 2. There is a reason people still say xmen origins is the best xmen opening even if it is one of their worst movies overall. seeing wolverine and sabetooth fight in those wars. now imagine a full movie of that helmed by a competent talented director like Nolan or Bigelow?
If people can compare joker to the taxi driver or the king of comedy, a magneto movie can be compared to Dunkirk or Saving Private Ryan.Even the Phoenix movie as the xmen try to return to earth can be heavily inspired by Apollo 13.
there are many ways to explore xmen stories intellectually, which is what xmen needs. its not about loud noises of cgi , crossover movies, jokes and easy popcorn flicks.
Last edited by Beaddle; 11-17-2019 at 01:38 PM.
I'm so ready for an MCU take on the X-Men. Gimme the full on MCU experience Feige with all the crossover, jokes, and fun it will encompass
Wolverine, Magneto, Xavier and Mystique where characters Fox overrated so badly. I wished we did get xforce and new mutants to show off fox that xmen is not about xavier, magneto, wolverine and raven.
As much as DOFP was a stand alone film making achievement that will likely never happen again because only Singer and Vuaghn could have executed such a film. I still can't forgive how Emma was killed off after first class and mystique lived once I look at it as a hard core comic xmen fan in the long run.
Its like I am trapped as a fan, the past shows xmen as a series that many of the makers of the film did not fully understand, so mystique is now more important than Emma but the future shows xmen in place of limitations because the new makers of xmen thinks xmen is like avengers and is a light feel world world most of the time.
Last edited by Beaddle; 11-17-2019 at 01:03 PM.
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I agree. While the MCU X-Men should have their own knack to make them different (the way the other MCU subseries have their unique touches to make them different and more then just another movie following some blockbuster formula), and having a more serious tone/theme is one way to do it, we got that in spades with the Fox series and generally pretty well (granted, not flawlessly). It'd be nice to see something new -- different characters taking the spotlight, adaptations/inspiration from stories Fox never touched, etc. -- and seeing an X-Men series that embraced the fun, goofy stuff that Fox largely left untouched would be one way to do that.
For that matter, why not divide the difference? I mean, Infinity War was a character drama first and foremost with all the feels that come with it, but was still very funny. If I would offer one critique of the Fox series, I don't think they ever quite had the heart that the MCU did (Logan, First Class and Days of Future Past notwithstanding). Combine the MCU's heart and character work with a good story and premise from the comics, that would a movie I'd be really eager to see.
Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
(All-New Wolverine #4)
For my Sanity, I have decided to not care of what will happen with the franchise in the MCU. I will take it when it comes, and see if enjoy the ride, or not.
But it's nice to read your ideas, wishes, and arguments.