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  1. #4471
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    Point well noted. Part of me was mute when Steel Inquisitor said Logan was a good film by Fox standards. I should have known it was not what I was thought. High standards to me are things that are more provoking to write and yeah, just because it makes A PERSON uncomfortable does not mean it should be removed, it making people uncomfortable is raising the standard because it open minds and is this me too era, things like human trafficking, sex abuse can be explored. That will even get 10x the praise if it is explored in a comic book film.



    Another point I was trying to make that the snap will cheapen the concept of mutants. in the past , mutants have been described as the next stage of human evolution, a slow process that takes thousand of years. there is real science hypothesises that supports that theory of races. Another good reason mutants have always made a good metaphor for racism.

    A snap that gave birth to mutants is the definition of a lazy space fantasy theory. X2 definition of the origins of mutants is already a superior origin to the snap theory because that has plausible science to explain the mutant gene. a snap is actually lowering the standard of comic book plots and making things more shallow than a standard comic film needs to be
    The X-Men were created by Stan Lee's own admission because he was tired of doing origins so he came up a lazy fantasy theory to explain the powers.

  2. #4472

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSupernaut View Post
    Tbh I would have the X-Men being around as a covert superhero team before the snap (first 5) and then having them snapped (sans Scott)to lead to him managing the second team(Storm, Colossus, Banshee etc)
    I would do something like this. Maybe Xavier gathered the O5 within the 5 year snap period, though. So while the Avengers were all depressed and disbanded and world gone to shit, Xavier was out there gathering up a handful of tween/teenaged mutants and training them to control their powers. By the time of the 'Unsnapping', they have been a cohesive unit for a year or two. Then, post Endgame, there's a "Krakoa" event that creates the impetus for creating the new team(with Ororo and Logan and whomever else you want to pick) for the global modern team that we will follow in the MCU.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  3. #4473
    Incredible Member Marvelgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    The X-Men were created by Stan Lee's own admission because he was tired of doing origins so he came up a lazy fantasy theory to explain the powers.
    And thank God it was not Stan Lee who made X-Men the legendary series that it is today.

    Stan Lee's lazy fantasy theory got his run cancelled.

    It was Chris Claremont, John Byrne, Bill Sienkiewicz and many others that took off from Lee's failure and made X-Men a series with something of real substance beyond lazy fantasy stories.

    The mutant gene is pure science fiction. That is the only convincing route to tell a worthy X-Men story that explains the origins of mutants.

    Hah, and they were telling me about standards. Stan Lee X-Men is not the standard, Its not even close. The snap even sounds worse than Spiderman as Ironman-lite.

  4. #4474
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    I think the idea of mutants getting their abilities because of exposure to the gems and experimentation is feasible. The answer as to why they haven't been or where they've been is the hard part.

    1.This is where I wonder about a parallel universe, dimension or timeline or even the mutants being offworld which as much as I hate those scenarios along with time travel could explain the absence. And overall the Incursion story in Hickmans New Avengers and Secret Wars was some damn good stuff. So an adaptation of that which brings the Xmen and FF into the MCU would be exciting. Also I guess being that we've explored things like the Bifrost and Nine realms, time travel which i never thought the MCU would try, and now more recently the Infinity stones and Wakanda, then the upcoming multiverse of madness....the minor but interesting idea of the Ghost boxes could be something for mutants and parallel universes or whatever if we're talking about things already established.

    2. Someone mentioned Moira X and her reincarnation resurrection mutant ability from HOX/POX. That story in and of itself could be a great movie if done right. Whule that concept is new and hasnt been completed. I would guess by the time we actually get an Xmen movie on screen it would be finished and ready for adaptation. Hell if Hickman already knows his plot points and endgame then why not be developing that now.

    (Sidenote while Covid may have paused live shooting and production, the downtime should have accelerated writing and editing and art. Having the stories movies and book content ready for production should feasibly speed up timelines once the greenlight to film again happens. But im sure it wont work like that though it easily could.)

    3. One could argue that the time travel in Endgame altered the timeline and thus mutants have always been.

    4. Then there's what I see as a brilliant idea that someone mentioned earlier in this thread and thats of mutants living in secret and being hidden by means of their own Illuminati or telepathic counsel.

    The conflict of new enhanced individuals popping up as teenagers and children would definitely push towards things like the mutant registration act or anecdotes to control powers, vaccines etc. The Sokovia accords dealt with the idea of the superhero team being sanctioned by the governments etc but this could delve a little deeper for mutants. The concept of them being in hiding and then Xavier basically finally outing himself as a mutant on TV like in Grant Morrisons run could go ahead and push the story of an established team and school even culture versus redoing origins. Which by the way I still like the idea of introducing that in Disney+ format.

  5. #4475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    Because its a mystery box of emptiness. It has no true substance to what has already been done in the past.It focuses more on selling X-men as part of the mcu than X-Men as a potentially wonderful science fiction series on its own, where the concept of mutants is based on real science hypothesises.
    As the actual biology professor in the room, the X-Biology is to real biology as bickering politicians are to efficiency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post

    Another point I was trying to make that the snap will cheapen the concept of mutants. in the past , mutants have been described as the next stage of human evolution, a slow process that takes thousand of years. there is real science hypothesises that supports that theory of races. Another good reason mutants have always made a good metaphor for racism.

    A snap that gave birth to mutants is the definition of a lazy space fantasy theory. X2 definition of the origins of mutants is already a superior origin to the snap theory because that has plausible science to explain the mutant gene. a snap is actually lowering the standard of comic book plots and making things more shallow than a standard comic film needs to be
    No, that is not how real evolution of works. Real evolution isn't some linear process. Evolution does not exist in stages like fiction and the deranged ramblings of Mr. Sinister implies. Evolution simply means that the environment, the ever fickle environment, which species lives and which species dies. There is no end goal in evolution where people become gods. Evolutionary stages are just a lazy space fantasy theory.
    Last edited by U.N. Owen; 05-25-2020 at 12:37 PM.

  6. #4476
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    More rumors from this Sutton guy...

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/cosmicb...-magneto%3famp

    Sounds like they are really building towards some epic $#!+ with Doom and Magneto. Can’t wait!

    So, to recap the rumors...

    - Mutant characters will begin to pop up in Phase 4 and 5 in other films and Dis+ shows;
    - There will be an X-men movie with largely the ANAD team (minus Banshee and Colossus);
    - Thunderbird will die on their first mission involving Krakoa;
    - The X-men will free Wolverine from Department K and Alpha Flight will be involved;
    - Weapon X will have really screwed Logan up and he won’t join the X-men at first, even after they rescue him;
    - There will be a Hulk vs. Wolverine film;
    - Secret Wars will be the tent pole for Phase 6; and
    - There will be an Avengers vs. X-men movie in Phase 7, which sees all the X-men side with Magneto except for Xavier and Wolverine.

    Damn. That’s quite a bit. Hope most of this makes it beyond the ideation stage and ends up happening. Fingers crossed...

  7. #4477
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    More rumors from this Sutton guy...

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/cosmicb...-magneto%3famp

    Sounds like they are really building towards some epic $#!+ with Doom and Magneto. Can’t wait!

    So, to recap the rumors...

    - Mutant characters will begin to pop up in Phase 4 and 5 in other films and Dis+ shows;
    - There will be an X-men movie with largely the ANAD team (minus Banshee and Colossus);
    - Thunderbird will die on their first mission involving Krakoa;
    - The X-men will free Wolverine from Department K and Alpha Flight will be involved;
    - Weapon X will have really screwed Logan up and he won’t join the X-men at first, even after they rescue him;
    - There will be a Hulk vs. Wolverine film;
    - Secret Wars will be the tent pole for Phase 6; and
    - There will be an Avengers vs. X-men movie in Phase 7, which sees all the X-men side with Magneto except for Xavier and Wolverine.

    Damn. That’s quite a bit. Hope most of this makes it beyond the ideation stage and ends up happening. Fingers crossed...
    Also

    Gambit D+ series in NOLA
    Excalibur D+ series or movie trilogy with Black Knight, Kitty, Cap Britain, Psylocke and Nightcrawler.

  8. #4478
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    I’m here for all of it. How quickly can they start cranking it out? Let’s go Feige! We’ve been waiting a long time for this. The current environment lends itself to Disney exploiting their IP as quickly as possible too, so get on the stick!!!

  9. #4479
    Incredible Member Marvelgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    As the actual biology professor in the room, the X-Biology is to real biology as bickering politicians are to efficiency.

    .
    The real biologically science behind mutants.


    As a person who read biology also and watches many science fiction series,the good ones, the X-Biology is one of the best science fiction elements in comics. It would be much better and interesting to explore in films than the Thanos snap not to mention give X-Men its own convincing uniqueness like the comics.

    The mutant gene concept goes beyond X-Men. Looking at it from a x-men concept of metaphor. Mutants parallels human evolution. biological science has shown that every race in the world traces back to one race. This is biological science and it goes back to mutants in science fiction.
    A classic xmen story:days of future past, the sentinels started targeting humans who potentially carried the mutant gene that was not active but could resurface in their kids who go on to become mutants, and that was how they started killing off humans in the story. The parallel biology metaphor is there for mutants.

    No, that is not how real evolution of works. Real evolution isn't some linear process. Evolution does not exist in stages like fiction and the deranged ramblings of Mr. Sinister implies. Evolution simply means that the environment, the ever fickle environment, which species lives and which species dies.
    Correct me if I am wrong but evolution does exist in stages, Charles Darwin showed Evolution for Apes to Man after 1000 of years, exactly the same definition of human evolving to mutants in X2.

    Sinister’s problem was never science inaccuracy, it was the abuse of his scientific gifts. All the cloning he did with the Summers family worked since it was about manipulating the Genes of Scott and Jean Grey.
    QUOTE]
    There is no end goal in evolution where people become gods. Evolutionary stages are just a lazy space fantasy theory. [/QUOTE]
    But in science fiction they do, this is the difference between science fiction of exploring human genes or the children of the atom vs actual lazy fantasy of a finger snapping that has nothing deeper to it than X-men is now part of the MCU. I still don’t see the substance.
    I will also like to think that any biologist I talk to would lean more favourably to science fiction of the human gene that are mutating to a different species than the Thanos Snap. Most mutants after all are born biologically.

  10. #4480
    Incredible Member Marvelgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodfatherIV View Post
    I think the idea of mutants getting their abilities because of exposure to the gems and experimentation is feasible. The answer as to why they haven't been or where they've been is the hard part.
    t.
    That is part of the problem with an out of character origins story. it begs the question where have they always been all this time. Captain Marvel was not all that convincing since fans asked so why was she not there all along.

    It is better to just use a separate fresh story. not only does it makes X-MEN more authentic, it will push and help mcu to progress further with embracing deeper closer to home stories unless mcu does not want that.

  11. #4481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    The real biologically science behind mutants.


    As a person who read biology also and watches many science fiction series,the good ones, the X-Biology is one of the best science fiction elements in comics. It would be much better and interesting to explore in films than the Thanos snap not to mention give X-Men its own convincing uniqueness like the comics.
    Great, a video on evolution which does not take into account the environmental factors that goes into evolution. I'll pass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    The mutant gene concept goes beyond X-Men. Looking at it from a x-men concept of metaphor. Mutants parallels human evolution. biological science has shown that every race in the world traces back to one race. This is biological science and it goes back to mutants in science fiction.
    A classic xmen story:days of future past, the sentinels started targeting humans who potentially carried the mutant gene that was not active but could resurface in their kids who go on to become mutants, and that was how they started killing off humans in the story. The parallel biology metaphor is there for mutants.
    I'm hoping that the mutants being a next stage of human evolution stays far away from the films unless a villain is wrong to push it. It cheapens the X-Men's struggle against a world that hates and fears them and turns it into a story about the warfare between two niches, a watered down cosmic horror about accepting your replacement. It is nonsense to fight for equality before the law and before people. You would be forcing one to degrade themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong but evolution does exist in stages, Charles Darwin showed Evolution for Apes to Man after 1000 of years, exactly the same definition of human evolving to mutants in X2.
    One, the ape to man is grossly inaccurate. Apes don't evolve into humans. We merely share a common ancestor with them.

    Two, stages exist, but they're not some hard and fast set of rules fated to happen. Look at how world history plays out. We have the advantage of hindsight to see the steps of how events like World War I played out. These events in the Great War did not need to play out the way they did and could have been averted/gone off the rails different. Same with our evolution. You would be surprised how much can be averted if things were just slightly different. Remove the moon out of the equation and you could screw up the mating patterns of an entire species.


    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    But in science fiction they do, this is the difference between science fiction of exploring human genes or the children of the atom vs actual lazy fantasy of a finger snapping that has nothing deeper to it than X-men is now part of the MCU. I still don’t see the substance.
    I will also like to think that any biologist I talk to would lean more favourably to science fiction of the human gene that are mutating to a different species than the Thanos Snap. Most mutants after all are born biologically.
    The drama of the X-Men will always be finding acceptance in a world that hates and fears them for being different. It does not matter if a Celestial dropped down and deliberately altered their genes in order to guard an embryo (Earth-X), Celestial experimentation because that's what they do (Earth-616 pre-Aaron retcon), something involving the Phoenix (Earth-616 post-Aaron retcon), or Odin shagging the Phoenix and creating mutants (semi-popular fan theory surrounding Aaron's retcon). If I wanted to watch a sci-fi superhuman society, I would watch the Inhumans with a bottle of wine or read My Hero Academia.

    I personally never want to see the origin of mutants ever explained on screen ever since I have found every single origin in the comics a desperate attempt to simply explain away the science aspect in the Marvel Universe, a comic that gives the middle finger to science on a constant basis. In fact, I would prefer the MHA approach to it. It happened. No one knows why. We see the effects. Then superhuman society issues.

  12. #4482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    That is part of the problem with an out of character origins story. it begs the question where have they always been all this time. Captain Marvel was not all that convincing since fans asked so why was she not there all along.

    It is better to just use a separate fresh story. not only does it makes X-MEN more authentic, it will push and help mcu to progress further with embracing deeper closer to home stories unless mcu does not want that.
    There was an explanation as to why she hadnt been there. I also mentioned explanations or attempts at them in my post. For all I care mutants could have alwats been here had whatever origin exposure to the stones like Wanda and Pietro or something with the Celestials whatever. Maybe Wanda had a nervous breakdown way back before the Avengers movie and caused House of M effectively wiping out mutants but afterward was taken by Hydra or whoever. Maybe the snap released energy and jumpstarted things again so now theres an influx of enhanced superpowered individuals some children thats made the world afraid. It can be whatever really not that diehards will be happy either way. But the alternative is not doing any movies at all. The whole fact of the matter is some fans and people will just be disagreeable to whatever is put out there. Mutants being their own secret society but being forced to come out of the shadows only to be hated and feared can be a deep story. The experimentation angle unlocking genetic potential can as well. To a certain degree all of it takes a suspension of disbelief. Hell if radiation kills everyone but turns one guy big and green, while another guy gets the Popeye treatment and becomes a super soldier, while still another absorbs fumes and energy from an exploding engine and people eat herbs that grow on a meteorite to gain powers....then mutation however they choose to describe it via snap, celestials, experiments or unproven evolution really shouldn't be a problem to accept
    Last edited by GodfatherIV; 05-25-2020 at 07:02 PM.

  13. #4483
    Smart & Swift & Violent Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Poppy Drayton was born to play Emma Frost.
    She has pulled off an *actually* sexy, *actually* feminist, snarky, and extremely likable Emma Frost character on season 2 of Charmed.

    You guys gotta watch it
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  14. #4484
    Fantastic Member Dipter's Avatar
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    Thanks for the suggestion, I've never heard of this show. I'll check it out!

  15. #4485
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    I’m here for all of it. How quickly can they start cranking it out? Let’s go Feige! We’ve been waiting a long time for this. The current environment lends itself to Disney exploiting their IP as quickly as possible too, so get on the stick!!!
    I think we won`t get any official confirmation on X shows at least till Dr Strange 2 will arrive.
    Strange 2 probably will introduce Xavier and mutants. So after that anyone can appear or to be introduced.

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